How much of Astor/Tobio is inside Astro?

[avatargirl]

HI- HUGS- SO GLAD ASTROBOY has the sweetness of ASTOR/TOBIO- WHAT WOULD HE BE LIKE IF HE WAS TO BECOME LIKE DR.TENMA?- HOPE THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE.............OH GIRL THAT WOULD BE KINDA SCARY

[Astro Forever]

I have a hard time making myself believe that Astro actually had any of Tobio's memory as part of his own memory, even if I like how they play on that theme in the 2003 series (as contradictory as that may seem!).

And in all honesty, I actually rather like this because it makes him more human; after all, there are people like that in real life.

Yes, that's a very contemporary issue! I see it the same way, although I think perhaps he doesn't love his son for who he really is but for who/what he may become. The 2009 movie seems to go into that direction as well, with the little boy being this incredible genius! That would also be consistent with your reasoning, that Tenma wants to get something out of Astro; in this case, it would be to gain back his place as a father. I'm not sure Tenma would have expected to get closer to Astro should Astro become the "king", since after all, he was still only an imperfect human in Astro's eyes, but in his mind he would have known who had created him and that may still have been enough.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

I don't know, I prefer to think that 03 Tenma loved his son for who he was given how happy he seems in flashbacks. I can buy that with Astro, but I do feel that given ow the 03 series ends that he'd probably learn to love Astro for who he is as well.

As for your theory on the "King" of Robots thing, I think it's possible, but I still prefer to think that Tenma just thought that it was the only way to make them father and "son" again.

[teugene50]

Gee,I see.

[jeffbert]

if it would be possible to "download" memories . . . and maybe there IS some validity to it - people who have received organs from donors have been known to have personality shifts that reflect the donor's personality

Like THE HANDS OF ORLAC! The pianist's hands were crushed, & a murderer's hands were grafted on. But here, there was only the suggestion that the hands would make the pianist a killer, & he believing it, acted accordingly.

[Astro Forever]

I don't know, I prefer to think that 03 Tenma loved his son for who he was given how happy he seems in flashbacks. I can buy that with Astro, but I do feel that given ow the 03 series ends that he'd probably learn to love Astro for who he is as well.

As for your theory on the "King" of Robots thing, I think it's possible, but I still prefer to think that Tenma just thought that it was the only way to make them father and "son" again.

I think that the final 2003 Tenma/Astro scene, with Astro hugging Tenma, displays affection going way beyond a father trying to live vicariously through his child.

That doesn't mean that he was thinking of Tobio that way before he died, otherwise I'm thinking he would have given him more attention. So in other words, both possibilities aren't completely incompatible. Of course that's just my opinion, and it's so difficult to understand him with all the different versions of the story!

I

[Alittleacorn]

Hmmm...

60's & 80's series Astro followed the same deal. The son dies and Father makes a robot in his image. But no matter how much he trained that robot to replace Tobio he never could. Mostly because for those ones you're just building a machine and programming it, no matter how hard Tenma tried he was never going to get Astro to be Tobio. For those older series Astro never had anything of Tobio in him, since Tobio was only the premise and not the focus.

The 03 series stands out the most because they do dive into the back story with Tobio and even go as far as implying that Astro is him and may even has his soul or memories in him (or has a sixth sense for ghosts, that part never really made much sense :eek plus many of the shots and words from Astro in the final episode were intentionally doubles of what Tobio had said (Japanese version, cough). So for that one you could conclude that Astro is Tobio but became a different person upon losing his memories.

The 09 film....ur, falls under the premise thing again. Though Toby's mentioned you never get the impression that Astro is him or suffers the identity crisis from it like 03 Astro did. He's obtained some Toby's memories that shape him into a more human character but he acts nothing like him. Toby is a misbehaving, Astro isn't, so for that it's safe to say Astro isn't Toby, but if just the Blue Core removing all the badass from his state of mind or if Astro is the Blue Core is left uncleared.

I think this was even in the Pluto manga as well where Atom behaved nothing like Toby and Tenma winded up bringing it out in a bunch of questions. It's different for every adaptation, but for the strongest of the lot for showing that Astro had part of Toby in him would have to be the 03 series.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

Oh, I completely agree. In fact, I almost wonder if maybe this would be a starting point for how feels about Astro. That instead of seeing him as Tobio, he grows to love Astro for his kindness, especially when he gives him a second chance.

I would think so; Astro did act similarily to Tobio as we saw in teh last episode, so it's defenitely most likely. Though despite his development into his own person, I wouldn't be surprised if he and Tobio still shared similar traits even after all of that.

Actually, I think you might have a good point littleacorn. As explained in the movie, the blue core is pure "positive" energy, while the red core is pure "negative" energy. So perhaps by putting the blue core into Astro, it essentially created an "idealized" version of Toby, if that makes any sense.

[avatargirl]

HI- HUGS- BUT DIDN'T TENMA try to put SOME DNA that he got from ASTOR/TOBIO into ASTROBOY? I LOVE THE STORY OF ASTROBOY and yet sad that death is involve in the story- i pray everyone a saved/safe/wondrous future and love the people here- i apologize if i say this too much but i do care and so want everyone to be happy