SHONEN MANGA orignal(?)

[ASTROBUDDY]

So then my guess is right. The story does go from the large format to small format to large format. In other words from Shonen magazine to Shonen supplemant to Shonen magazine. Do you notice the numbers next to the serial title to denote the chapter. For example the page with Astro Boy coming to the aid of Dr. Elefun as he is surrounded by the crocs, has a "4" next to the title. If you look inside the short format book for 9/64 you should see a number 4 to denote that this is supplement installment No. 4. This might help you in putting together the manga serial in its original order.
Thank you! I hope this also helps in your research of the original manga.
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[jeffbert]

Oh, there is a '4' there! And a '5' on the -10, etc, but I do not se any '7' on -12.

[ASTROBUDDY]

Hi, Jeffbert! If I understand you right, you are referring to the one under which you placed a caption which reads, "SF 1964-12 FC"! So when you opened this one, you saw no "7"? All I can say is that is very interesting and surprising. It could be an omission. I would venture to guess "a possible misprint"!? Since I only have the Shonen manga/TetsuWan Atom(u) supplement, I am doing total quesswork here. Or maybe because this was the last supplement to feature a segment of the "Greatest Robot on Earth" serial it may have been omitted deliberately!?, as in not necessary! I can't really tell, as "All Illustrations of Mighty Atom" shows only the title page of the manga that appeared in the regular monthly magazine and the covers of the monthly supplements.
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[jeffbert]

To clarify, I add some more date data:

there is a '4' there (on the 1964-9)! And a '5' on the (1964)-10, etc, but I do not see any '7' on (1964)-12.

[ASTROBUDDY]

Hi, Jeffbert! Yes I understand! As I stated above I find the fact that there is no "7" interesting. Any way I wanted to ask you, would you please explain what you meant by "not enough content." My copy covers a least eighteen pages of the episode, "The Greatest Robot on Earth". Pages 69 thru 88 of Dark Horse's "Osamu Tezuka's Original Astro Boy" volume # 3, to be exact. Are you saying that the other supplements had less pages than that? Also are you finding that to be a pattern? For ex.) Do the beginning supplements have more pages or "content" than the latter supplements? I wonder if like me you found the original versions to be more satisfying artistically. I mean those full page panels showing Astro Boy and Pluto (see post# 2 of this thread), I feel truly show what an amazing craftsman Tezuka was. Something only hinted at in the Dark Horse reprints.
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[jeffbert]

Hi, Jeffbert! Yes I understand! As I stated above I find the fact that there is no "7" interesting. Any way I wanted to ask you, would you please explain what you meant by "not enough content." My copy covers a least eighteen pages of the episode, "The Greatest Robot on Earth". Pages 69 thru 88 of Dark Horse's "Osamu Tezuka's Original Astro Boy" volume # 3, to be exact. Are you saying that the other supplements had less pages than that? Also are you finding that to be a pattern? For ex.) Do the beginning supplements have more pages or "content" than the latter supplements? I wonder if like me you found the original versions to be more satisfying artistically. I mean those full page panels showing Astro Boy and Pluto (see post# 2 of this thread), I feel truly show what an amazing craftsman Tezuka was. Something only hinted at in the Dark Horse reprints.
I

I think you refer to this:

LF p. 79; the details of Pluto's fight against Bora are in this last segment. I still do not understand why the small-format books would lack so much content. It could merely be the way these collector's reprints are organized, or perhaps a cost-cutting method of issuing the small format books; I would be guessing if I said it was either one, though.

I meant that if you read only the small format books, you will miss Pluto's fights against Brando & Bora because those details while being in the large-format books are absent from the SF books.

For example, p 50 of 1964-07 has Brando rising from the sea, as Atom, Uran (not seen, presumably blocked from view by Brando) & Pluto look (facing camera). This is a Full page with margin text both side & bottom, but is rendered about 3/4 height & 2/3 width (of a page) on DH vol. 3 p. 40. 1964-08_05 (panel #1) is FP but is reproduced on p. 46 of DH. Roughly speaking, everything on DH pages 41-45 is omitted by the small format books.

Likewise, 1964-08_50 is a FP of Atom peeking around the hill as Pluto comes in for a landing, as seen in DH v3, p. 62's last panel, DH p. 63's 1st panel. I think 1 of these two panels in DH comes from the LF, but I need to check. Anyway, so Atom on DH p. 62 sees Dr. O walking toward the castle (which is panel #151 of -08. the sequence is a bit different, as here, O enters castle & confronts the Sultan before Pluto lands, while DH has P land 1st; but this is off-topic :lol . In DH, P lands p. 63, etc; then on DH p. 69, Sultan & Abullah are looking down into croc pit. This same scene is 1964-09_05 & panel #1. The stuff that occurred in the croc pit, including the nose chomp was omitted from the small format books. In the LF, the story that left off in 1964-08 resumes; P lands, goes into castle, O looks up & freaks out (color pages); P puts O into pit (color), nose chomp (purple ink), A comes, etc.

1964-09_50 has P walking toward Heracles; this is FP but extremely cropped into the last panel of DH v3 p. 88. Imagine this panel at bottom just above P's ankles; top: 1/2 way up his horns; & at its leading edge about at P's shoulder. 1964-10_04 panel #1 has a recap; #2 is FP but cropped down onto DH v3 p. 94's last panel. Everything in DH 89-93 is skipped by the small format books, but featured in the LF.

Unfortunately, for all the stories before this 1, I went through the SF books before looking at the LF, instead of interweaving them as the story continuity required. I will reexamine these later, but now am working on the last 2 stories in this Unit 5 (Roboids & R & Robiet).

I now think that as a cost-cutting method, some details were omitted from these small format books, which I suspect may have been printed a decade later. This, because of some of the ads in them suggest things that I anyway, do not think were available earlier. There are ads on the back covers, both inside & outside. Some of these are for electronic experimenter sets similar to the one I had in the early 1970s. Of course, I am just guessing.

[ASTROBUDDY]

Okay as I understand it from what you describe, the main story seems to have been advanced in the main Shonen manga or as you call it the "LF". The supplements or "SF" were chapters that featured something extra to the particular month's installment, but not necessarily an important plot element, as that was left for tne main Shonen manga. You must also remember that the DH reprints printed the particular episode as a whole and rather than print the serial as it originally appeared, certain concessions to condensing the story were made to fit a particular episode in one volume. I believe that certain full page panels or "FP" as you call them were redrawn or shrunk for the reprint to save space, as well as added for the sake of storytelling in the new complete reprint format. We know how Tezuka was always redrawing scenes, so that some of the panels from the SF were changed for the DH reprint in order to make the episode flow as a single episode rather than as a serial. As for the ad for something that may not have been in the original 1964 issue, maybe something in the Japanese text may explain, but here I am just guessing.
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[jeffbert]

tO CLARIFY: 'SF' = "SMALL FORMAT" (50 PAGES give or take a few). 'LF" = "Large Format" which can contain as many as 350 magazine sized pages.

As I understand it, the stories were 1st printed in the LF books as weekly or monthly installments of several to dozens of pages. These LF books also contained various other manga written by other artists. When the SF reprints were 1st issued, certain details were omitted. These were the action-oriented scenes that really did not carry the plot. If you try reading the DH & skip those pages I indicated were omitted from the SF, you may feel that you miss some important stuff, but can you really say that you could not understand the story?

In the reprints I own, the material omitted from the SF has been included in the LF books, for the sake of completeness, Or so I think.

[ASTROBUDDY]

tO CLARIFY: 'SF' = "SMALL FORMAT" (50 PAGES give or take a few). 'LF" = "Large Format" which can contain as many as 350 magazine sized pages. As I understand it, the stories were 1st printed in the LF books as weekly or monthly installments of several to dozens of pages. These LF books also contained various other manga written by other artists. When the SF reprints were 1st issued, certain details were omitted. These were the action-oriented scenes that really did not carry the plot. If you try reading the DH & skip those pages I indicated were omitted from the SF, you may feel that you miss some important stuff, but can you really say that you could not understand the story? In the reprints I own, the material omitted from the SF has been included in the LF books, for the sake of completeness, Or so I think.

Yes, thank you for the clarification! So, the LF reprint the monthly installments of the manga as they originally appeared and collect them into individual volumes. And each LF volume is numbered. The SF seem to be replicas of the "Shonen" supplements,(at least as concerns "The Greatest Robot on Earth.") When orignally issued I am guessing that the large format manga and the smaller format supplements were sold together each month. (You know how Japanese manga are wrapped and packaged and sold today. I am supposing they were sold that way too, way back in the sixties.) Would you please remind me, how many boxsets do you have and what years do they cover?

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[jeffbert]

I do not know how they are packaged today.

I have units 3-7 (of 7): Looking in my notes, v3 seems to start with #35 Artificial Sun; though I did not begin extensive comparisons between the DH & the JLV until 46 Space Parasites.

For the love of CUTEY HONEY, I must have UNIT 2, for its coverage of 28 Count Bat! I strongly suspect that it was Higeoyaji, not Honey, who originated the so-called speechification; that there originally were more than one panel in which Higeoyaji detailed the disguises he had used.