prof tenma

[otaku]

prof tenma is my alltime favorite i dont know why
even in the old and new astroboy i like him so much
does anyone know where i can find good pics of him

[Strange Wings]

Here are some of him, together with Astro:










Those were the days...

[jeffbert]

I really do not want to start another argument with Cybotron, who likes to argue about things of which he has little or no knowledge, but here goes:

Professor Tenma is Tezuka's version of Baron Victor von Frankenstein, and Atom is his version of Frankenstein's creation. Note that I compare to the novel, not the films about Frankenstein. There are several comparisons in which this is quite clear, while there are indeed other ways that it is not so clear. There are areas that are clearly different though, so I will start there:

• Frankenstein created his monster just to see if it were possible to do so. He cared nothing for its welfare or happiness.
  
  Tenma had a specific reason for creating Atom, but during the design process, he obviously went mad, & rather than merely making a 'replacement' for Tobio, he added rockets, machine guns, etc (depending on whichever version we consider). He only wanted to relieve his own pain of having lost his son, he cared nothing for its welfare or happiness.
  
  Thus, regardless of the differences, both creators thought little of the created beings' needs, only of their own desires.
• Frankenstein, once he recovered from the euphoria of having created life, realized that his creation was very ugly, & immediately cast it out, forcing it to fend for itself, having no knowledge of good or evil, only hunger, thirst, & loneliness.
  
  Tenma initially embraced his creation, loving it as though it were indeed his son. However, he eventually rejected it (details depend upon the version, I think the saddest is in manga 6-8), & it was eventually taken in by Ochanomizu (Elefun).
  
• Frankenstein's creation, finding itself rejected by its creator/father, attempted to find acceptance among humans, but being large, ugly, and initially unable to speak, was feared and hated by humans, & eventually resolved that it could not find friends among them, would asks its creator to create a mate for it. This being rejected by the creator, it then became murderous, & would destroy its creator's loved ones.
  
  Atom, having enjoyed initial acceptance, & having an appealing appearance, found that life without father was tough, but endurable. He therefore maintained his respect for humans. In the 60s, years passed before Tenma realized he was not growing (duh! , & he sold him to the ringmaster. In the 80s, after living with papa for an unspecified time, Kathy acted as a mother, making the Ringmaster's harshness easier to endure. In the 2003, there was no enslavement in the Robot Circus, Atom had been deactivated, and left to gather dust. He awakened to find himself surrounded by loving humans, accepted, and remembering nothing of his past. In the manga, one version of his origin (volumes 6-8) has Tenma's wife present. She initially rejects him, but comes to embrace him as her son. He therefore knew the love of both mama & papa, even though papa eventually sold him to the circus. This is the most touching and tragic story in the entire world of Astroboy. The poor mother begged the ringmaster to just see her little boy, but was denied. I could say more, but will defer from spoilers. In all cases, he knew love & affection from adults, & was therefore able to believe in the goodness of humans.
  
  If we consider the 80s & 2003 versions of Atlas, we will see that he was rejected by his father in both. He was merely a means to an end, Guiss used him to steal, & took away the one thing he loved in life, Livian. He therefore, became Guiss' deadly enemy, & eventually killed him. The 2003 (do not recall the father's name) father cared nothing for his son's feelings, desires, or welfare. He merely wanted him to be his successor in business. Thus, with Diachi, whether human or robot, he was nothing more than a tool. His bitterness for his father became hatred after his attempts to get actual affection failed. He then sought to destroy his father's business bit by bit, making him suffer these acts of vandalism, and eventually revealing that Atlas was none other than himself, Diachi. Still, Atlas had had some acceptance among humans, the gang of punks with whom he associated gave him a moderating view of humans, that some were ok. Compare this to the monster, whose only human companion was the blind man. This monster was not stupid, & eventually understood that he was accepted by him because he could not see his ugliness. When the blind man's daughter saw the large ugly monster, she screamed and that ended the monster's only friendship.
  
  If Atom had been in Atlas' position, would he not have done likewise? Remember, that Atlas in the 80s was created from stolen plans for Atom. In the 2003, he was created by Tenma; thus, giving him many similarities to Atom, as Tenma no doubt essentially built an adolescent version of Atom for the grieving father. So, in both cases, Atlas is like Atom's brother who suffers similarly to Frankenstein's monster.
  
  The existence of Atlas in these two series makes the comparison between Frankenstein's monster & Tenma's little robot valid. Atom was good because he had been loved by his father, & had therefore, learned to love, despite his eventual rejection. Atlas was never loved by his father, Livian's support was comforting but far from motherly, she simply lacked the power to counter Guiss' evil. Likewise, the gang of punks' companionship was good for Diachi, but was no substitute for his father's love.

[cybotron]

We intend to relate and equate Astroboy to Frankenstein, and we don't want any argument about the murderers brain or anything else. And this is because you're stupid and don't know what you're talking about. You have no knowledge.....
And now SS obersturmbannfuhrer Schmidlapp will take you to your cell.... :wacko:

[jeffbert]

I merely referred to your previous attack on my comparison in another thread. There, you criticized my comparisons, frequently referred to murders committed by the monster, while at the same time, completely dismissed everything else I had stated. I, for one, have recently read the novel, which was not exactly meant to be a horror story (using the modern definition of that term). Not only that, but I had likewise read a few interpretations of the novel, none of which vilified the monster. I advise you to read it yourself, before commenting further. I am comparing the novel not the film to the manga and anime. Your knowledge seems to me to be from the films. However, if you care to cite some instances from the novel, I would not be adverse to arguing about this. I have correctly stated facts pertinent to my argument, while you have merely used the overly broad charge of murder, while failing to state who was the victim.

Regardless, the act of murder requires a responsible human's willful intent. As such young children are immune from prosecution for murder or any other charge, because they lack responsibility. There are more than a few legal terms that equate the insanity defense with the "I'm just a little kid" defense. Although a 6 year-old might know that 'murder' is bad, he simply lacks the capacity to understand the act as an adult would. The monster possessed intelligence, but lacked the experiences & age that would otherwise have equipped it to know right from wrong, as a responsible adult should. It therefore, cannot commit murder in a legal sense.

[wildpegasus]

"Livian's support was comforting but far from motherly, she simply lacked the power to counter Guiss' evil."

WP -- I can't exactly agree with this one. Livian didn't have the powere to counter all the evil that was put into Atlas but she obviously had influence. Astro being saved from death underneath the sea by Atlas is a great example of this. Livian being the motherly influence on Atlas is what gives Atlas some good inside him which in turn results in Astro's life getting saved. I always got the vibe that while Livian was without doubt a friend her interaction with Atlas was totally that of what a mothere would do.

Now one of the questions is who was around Atlas more? Skunk, Guiss or Livian? I can't remember but I was always under the impression Atlas was surrounded more often by evil than good aka Livian. That's a lot of influence on Atlas and when you're at that impressionable age you tend to take the word of those that have been around longer as fact even if it doesn't feel completely right. Livian despite not being around as much has a tremendous (and of course it's conflicting advice which would make it even harder for Livian to get through to Atlas) influence because when Livian dies for absolutely nothing it sends Atlas over the edge to the point where it appears that Guiss dies. That influence was motherly. Mothers care for their kids and make them prepared for the world that awaits them. That was what Livian did.

[jeffbert]

Your analysis seems correct; Livian's influence was crucial in Atlas' last minute decision to spare Atom, no doubt about that. However, for the purpose of my argument, I did not need to go into detail about Livian's influence on Atlas. While it is true that she was the closest thing to a mother Atlas ever had, if she had indeed been his mother, she would no doubt have been more forceful in dealing with Guiss. She was a maid, though, and had been serving Guiss for some time before Atlas came along. Thus, she well knew of her master's wrath. As a female, she had compassion for Atlas, but as a maid, she knew it was not her place to intercede for him. Her purpose was not to be his mother, but to be the maid. Guiss was therefore angered with her for interfering with Atlas' training. If she had her way, he would be of little use to Guiss. Compare her to Kathy & you will see that Kathy was far more forceful in dealing with her employer than Livian was with her master.

Guiss and Skunk were about the only humans Atlas ever knew, and although he had hatred for Guiss, he was not too thrilled with Skunk. As such, he had a dim view of humans. He would just as soon have killed him, too, except that it was too much of a bother. While Skunk had yelled at him a few times, only Guiss had really been hateful toward him. It was Guiss, who dismantled Livian, thus depriving Atlas of the only source of kindness he ever knew. Yet, Skunk shared Guiss' goals for Atlas. He would be the one who most reminded Atlas of Guiss, and therefore would be a target.

That Atlas was influenced by Livian's admonishment to be kind to those weaker than himself, itself seems indicative of Tenma's having created a design that was predisposed to do good, rather than evil. Livian had so little time with Atlas, and yet her influence made a powerful impression upon him. All the time he had been with Skunk, who was trying to turn him into a criminal, & yet, he instead chose to oppose all humans, not just those who had what he wanted. Was she 'motherly' towards him? Not by his standard. If I am not mistaken, he asked her to be his mother. If this is so, he must have had in him an idea of what a mother should be. She never had the chance to be his mother, though; for when he rebuilt her, he made her just as much a cowering servant to him, as she had been to Guiss. Yet, she did help Atom escape the Crystal Castle. So, it seems that he did not totally deprive her of free will. Yet, he was not willing to risk losing her, he therefore did not give her the Omega Factor, that enabled him to choose whom he would serve.

[cybotron]

Originally posted by jeffbert@Nov 17 2004, 07:48 AM
I merely referred to your previous attack on my comparison in another thread. There, you criticized my comparisons, frequently referred to murders committed by the monster, while at the same time, completely dismissed everything else I had stated. I, for one, have recently read the novel, which was not exactly meant to be a horror story (using the modern definition of that term). Not only that, but I had likewise read a few interpretations of the novel, none of which vilified the monster. I advise you to read it yourself, before commenting further. I am comparing the novel not the film to the manga and anime. Your knowledge seems to me to be from the films. However, if you care to cite some instances from the novel, I would not be adverse to arguing about this. I have correctly stated facts pertinent to my argument, while you have merely used the overly broad charge of murder, while failing to state who was the victim.

Regardless, the act of murder requires a responsible human's willful intent. As such young children are immune from prosecution for murder or any other charge, because they lack responsibility. There are more than a few legal terms that equate the insanity defense with the "I'm just a little kid" defense. Although a 6 year-old might know that 'murder' is bad, he simply lacks the capacity to understand the act as an adult would. The monster possessed intelligence, but lacked the experiences & age that would otherwise have equipped it to know right from wrong, as a responsible adult should. It therefore, cannot commit murder in a legal sense.

An interesting article or essay on the Author of Frankenstein
I am afraid that the novel is not as relevant as the fruit it has brought forth into 21st century "Pop Culture"....
The simple truth is that your assertion that Astro=Frankenstein in some way is NUTSSZZZZZZ....
And the proof of your Neurosis can be seen in the sheer length of your posts. Going on and on. Stuff Astro into the monsterous! Cram him into the monster! Stuff him into the Monster! You want o go back into the "pristine environment" of the book. But you can't. The Frankenstein Monster, IS a monster in this world. Made up of dead bodies with the brain of a murderer now. I don't have to argue or say anymore. :wahah:

[otaku]

thanks for the pics!!!

and erm i just like dr tenma i dont why he just hits my heart even the first time i saw him
too bad he went tottaly loco

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by cybotron+Nov 17 2004, 03:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cybotron @ Nov 17 2004, 03:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--jeffbert@Nov 17 2004, 07:48 AM
I merely referred to your previous attack on my comparison in another thread. There, you criticized my comparisons, frequently referred to murders committed by the monster, while at the same time, completely dismissed everything else I had stated. I, for one, have recently read the novel, which was not exactly meant to be a horror story (using the modern definition of that term). Not only that, but I had likewise read a few interpretations of the novel, none of which vilified the monster. I advise you to read it yourself, before commenting further. I am comparing the novel not the film to the manga and anime. Your knowledge seems to me to be from the films. However, if you care to cite some instances from the novel, I would not be adverse to arguing about this. I have correctly stated facts pertinent to my argument, while you have merely used the overly broad charge of murder, while failing to state who was the victim.

Regardless, the act of murder requires a responsible human's willful intent. As such young children are immune from prosecution for murder or any other charge, because they lack responsibility. There are more than a few legal terms that equate the insanity defense with the "I'm just a little kid" defense. Although a 6 year-old might know that 'murder' is bad, he simply lacks the capacity to understand the act as an adult would.  The monster possessed intelligence, but lacked the experiences & age that would otherwise have equipped it to know right from wrong, as a responsible adult should. It therefore, cannot commit murder in a legal sense.

An interesting article or essay on the Author of Frankenstein
I am afraid that the novel is not as relevant as the fruit it has brought forth into 21st century "Pop Culture"....
The simple truth is that your assertion that Astro=Frankenstein in some way is NUTSSZZZZZZ....
And the proof of your Neurosis can be seen in the sheer length of your posts. Going on and on. Stuff Astro into the monsterous! Cram him into the monster! Stuff him into the Monster! You want o go back into the "pristine environment" of the book. But you can't. The Frankenstein Monster, IS a monster in this world. Made up of dead bodies with the brain of a murderer now. I don't have to argue or say anymore. :wahah:[/b][/quote]
Once again, you have made an assertion that you have neglected to support with even a scrap of evidence. Furthermore, you insist that even though I clearly stated that my comparison was between the novel Frankenstein & the story of Astroboy (whether manga or anime), such is not the case. You assert that the novel is not as relevant as the films. You thus attempt to change a vital element in my argument to suit your needs. I could not care less that more people have seen one film or another, than have read the novel. My only comparison specified the novel & excluded the films, no matter how much you may dislike that fact, you cannot change it!

Moreover, your statement:
"The simple truth is that your assertion that Astro=Frankenstein in some way is NUTSSZZZZZZ.... "

clearly shows that you have misunderstood me. Nowhere did I equate Astroboy with Frankenstein's monster. I defy you to produce evidence to the contrary. I merely stated that there were similarities in their stories.