The enduring memory of HJIMS Yamato

[dannavy85]

the Japanse took much less time to all but abandon notions of racial superiority that were used to justify these atrocities than the Americans did.

I lived in Japan for 12 years buddy boy and I can tell you that Tezuka is a rare person in a society that is still largely racist against other Asians and bigoted against Christians and Jews.

Guess you never looked at a Japanese history book to see they still won't admit or accept the atrocities carried in the name of the Emperor Hirohito, like the rape of Nanking.

[dannavy85]

I'll stop posting on this thread, the college "closet" ignorance and bigotry is getting to deep.

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by dannavy85+Aug 30 2004, 09:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dannavy85 @ Aug 30 2004, 09:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [i]Whites have done some very nasty things, but tend to forget them (which is a tendancy not unique to Whites, though)

Let me remind you of something "college boy", obviously you've sat too long in that Ivy league chair of yours...

Pol Pot was not white.

Stalin wasn't European

Kim Jong Il is not white

Idi Amin was not white

The Taliban freaks who shot women in the head for wearing make up and crushed gays with stone walls are not white.

Tojo wasn't white

Mao wasn't white

Saddam isn't white

Yassir Arafat and his maniac suicide bombers are not white

The men who shot thousands of protestors in Beijing China in 1989 were not white.

Better keep your horse blinder racist thoughts to yourself before you go off on an idiot tangent...."college boy"

sorry people, I hate ignorants [/b]

All these examples you give take nothing away from my argument. It still stands as true. I never said that whites were responsible for all or most of the atrocities. I did say that if they are going to look at history & point the finger at other peoples' crimes against humanity, they ought to consider the history of their own kind. B) If you had bothered to read anything I had written here, you would have known this. Your knee-jerk reaction shows your character is rather poor. It is clear that you only glanced at my writing, just enough to detect key words that taken out of context, offended you.

"Better keep your horse blinder racist thoughts to yourself before you go off on an idiot tangent.college boy"

There is no trace of racism in anything I have ever written to this forum. I have dealt with this subject very delicately, being sure to make myself abundantly clear, lest some knee-jerk might misunderstand me. How you could read my posts & see racism on my part is beyond me.

Originally posted by -dannavy85@Aug 30 2004, 09:52 AM
the Japanse took much less time to all but abandon notions of racial superiority that were used to justify these atrocities than the Americans did.
I lived in Japan for 12 years buddy boy and I can tell you that Tezuka is a rare person in a society that is still largely racist against other Asians and bigoted against Christians and Jews.
Guess you never looked at a Japanese history book to see they still won't admit or accept the atrocities carried in the name of the Emperor Hirohito, like the rape of Nanking.

Regarding racism, judging from popular culture alone, let us consider anime Vs. American films made a full 95 years after the end of the civil war. Blacks were nearly always depicted as servants, loincloth wearing savages, or in some other uncomplimentary way. Asians were often depicted as villains, and Whites themselves portrayed Asians in prominent roles. Even as late as the 1970s Bruce Lee who had both an Asian & white parent, was denied the role of Q. C. Caine in the series Kung Fu. Both Boris Karloff & Christopher Lee portrayed Fu Manchu, but not one proper Asian did. It was rare and daring when any film portrayed Blacks, Asians, or any non-whites as anything other than sidekicks, servants, or some other unflattering roles.

Amime, on the other hand, does have more than a few black characters, this after only 55 or so years after the end of WWII (I use 55 years rather than 59, because there is a delay in getting things published in region 1). Granted, there are some anime that have no blacks depicted in them. Regardless, I have seen a slew of anime (some 300 discs), & have yet to see blacks depicted in similar uncomplimentary ways as they were in American films. Moreover, anime is chock full of characters who lack Japanese characteristics. So much so, that those characters with Japanese characteristics are the exceptions. Blue eyes, green eyes, pink eyes, red hair, blond hair, afro hair, skin tones ranging from pale to dark brown, prevail in anime.

Granted, the Astroboy manga do show blacks in often uncomplimentary ways, with caricatures similar to those of American cartoons of the same time. The first text in the books apologizes for this depiction. They are most often extras, and I can only think of one Black Tezuka actor who was cast in prominent roles. Afill was first cast as in Lost World (as the member of the secret society in Planet Mamango), in 1948. He was after that cast as an extra.

Now, why is it that American films depicted non-whites infrequently, in minor roles, or as villains, well into the 1960s? It is because the film makers believed that the white majority would not watch films that put non-whites in prominent roles. I wonder why they thought that. I wonder why anime shows non-Japanese in prominent roles. True, I have seen very few Japanese films other than anime, but why would this one genre depict non-Japanese differently than other genres? It is reasonable that Samurai films consist of nearly all Japanese characters, so Yojimbo gets a pass.

Originally posted by -dannavy85@Aug 30 2004, 09:52 AM
the Japanse took much less time to all but abandon notions of racial superiority that were used to justify these atrocities than the Americans did.
I lived in Japan for 12 years buddy boy and I can tell you that Tezuka is a rare person in a society that is still largely racist against other Asians and bigoted against Christians and Jews.
Guess you never looked at a Japanese history book to see they still won't admit or accept the atrocities carried in the name of the Emperor Hirohito, like the rape of Nanking.

The closing paragraph in my last post reads:
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We ought to condemn those who do such things now[/i]@ & recently; but pointing the finger to history must itself be balanced by examining one's own national/ethnic history. A lot can change in 50 years: the Japanse took much less time to all but abandon notions of racial superiority that were used to justify these atrocities than the Americans did.[/QUOTE


If you should think this inaccurate because you have lived in Japan, I apologize for my reliance on books, I cannot travel. However, in defense of this assertion, I wonder if you saw more than a few provinces. Are you saying that you lived everywhere in Japan, or is this just your tendency to be in one area & believe the whole is just like it. Attitudes are not universal. While several, even many provinces may indeed exhibit racism, you cannot logically infer that all do because some do. Much less that those attitudes are universal within any given provinces. People are individuals, & while I realize that Eastern nations were collectivist cultures, humans are still individuals. As you, yourself allow, Tezuka was not a racist.

[b]I lived in Japan for 12 years buddy boy and I can tell you that Tezuka is a rare person in a society that is still largely racist against other Asians and bigoted against Christians and Jews.
Guess you never looked at a Japanese history book to see they still won't admit or accept the atrocities carried in the name of the Emperor Hirohito, like the rape of Nanking.

However, your linking Japan's racism with its denial of "atrocities carried in the name of the Emperor Hirohito" is anti-logical. You use the fact of denial of the one thing as evidence in support of the fact of the other thing. No wonder you refer to my college education in insulting terms, as your own lack of education is clearly evident. I have met blacks who state that the South is racist. By this, do they mean that 1) there are some racists there; 2) there are a few racists there; 3) there are many racists there; or 4) everybody there is a racist? Your own statement suffers from the same lack of clarity. Perhaps you should state when and where you lived in Japan.

Because you use the fact that you lived there for 12 years, & as such you know better than I, what the conditions are, I shall now turn that against you:

Were you there to see Pol Pot's killing fields? Or Idi Amin's crimes? Mao's Cultural Revolution? What about Stalin's purges? For a guy who claims to have been there, you yourself seem to also rely upon history books, newspapers, etc, for some if not most of these facts that you list. Yet, you condemn me for doing the same. You are a hypocrite!

For that matter, where were you when the Pope offered paradise to anyone who would fight to liberate the holy land from the accursed infidels? This resulted no fewer than three in masses of peasants going to the Middle East to make war against the Muslims, who at that time were doing nothing to offend the Pope, other than being there minding their own business. But the Catholic Church is like the ministry of truth of the novel 1984. It continually rewrites its history, trying to blot out its past, & make people think that the current beliefs were always the beliefs. Which culture started the war against other cultures? Which culture started this type of war, war not for conquest, or over territorial disputes, but holy war for the sole purpose of eradicating the accursed infidels?

Nearly all cultures have shameful incidents in their past. I have said that, but you have not read or perceived that.

Some people view themselves and their own culture as squeaky clean & without blemish. These people are 'believers' in their own cultures, in the psychological sense. Anyone who mentions anything negative is immediately assaulted by nonsensical onslaught of verbiage. You must be thinking:
"How dare you say anything negative about our most cherished beliefs? Of course, we may say things about others' beliefs, because we are us & they are them."

Guess you never looked at a Japanese history book to see they still won't admit or accept the atrocities carried in the name of the Emperor Hirohito, like the rape of Nanking.

Refresh my memory: when did I say they had embraced responsibility for this?

<!--QuoteBegin--dannavy85,Aug 30 2004, 09:53 AM]I'll stop posting on this thread, the college "closet" ignorance and bigotry is getting to deep.[/b][/quote]
Look at this, Knee-jerk: you have been so upset by reading my posts & seeing only things that offended you, that you foolishly replied thrice in five minutes. Thus you have shown yourself highly emotional state of mind, it is likely you were angry & in fact blinded by anger; perhaps you were crying . Regardless, you showed yourself to be one who blurts out his response, after failing to read or hear exactly what was stated. You write in a hurried even frenzied state of mind rather than carefully considering your response, or even thinking about it at all. "Boo hoo! mean ol' Jeffbert has hurt my feelings."

Open your eyes, you knee-jerk, & please read the entire post in a calm state of mind. Perhaps you might see that my whole point rests upon my lack of bias. You are the biased one. You are like a tattle tale, always pointing the finger at your brother, hoping mama will think you are so much better than he is. You are the bigot. While I discussed atrocities committed by various peoples including whites & non-whites, you only mentioned those of non-whites.