Star Wars

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by DrFrag@May 13 2005, 11:32 AM
Or slice meat while cooking it at the same time?

Weird coindicence - I just saw the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie. Trillian used a lightsabre knife to cut slices of toast off a loaf of bread. They even used a real lightsabre sound effect. :wacko:

[Latu]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

i saw episode 3 today!!!

it was so freakin awesome.......

awrite i gota watch the rerun for robot chicken.................

[fafner]

Just back from seeing it too. I'm BLOWN AWAY However I have already spotted an inconsistency with the original episodes

[O2Destroyer]

Haven't seen it yet, but general consensus is THUMBS UP! I may be an old grump, but I'll always take a chance on a new movie.

Jeffbert: My comment about Campbell and Lucas is that I think Lucas's reading of Campbell is EXTREMELY superficial and even trivial. Although I agree that a lot of people still do buy into A New Hope for the characters, that really isn't why it was a hit back then--and if you want the answer, look at the other films being made at that time. The other issue I have is that as far as that 'Campbellian' character development, it has been done a million times in a million movies, very often more convincingly than starwars (though not more profitably). I guess I'm just sick of that 4th disc of the star wars dvd set where he makes himself out like some kind of god. For a man who has now apparently made TWO good movies, I just feel like he's pushing his genius on us a bit too hard...

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by O2Destroyer@May 20 2005, 05:41 PM
Haven't seen it yet, but general consensus is THUMBS UP!  I may be an old grump, but I'll always take a chance on a new movie.

Jeffbert: My comment about Campbell and Lucas is that I think Lucas's reading of Campbell is EXTREMELY superficial and even trivial.  Although I agree that a lot of people still do buy into A New Hope for the characters, that really isn't why it was a hit back then--and if you want the answer, look at the other films being made at that time.  The other issue I have is that as far as that 'Campbellian' character development, it has been done a million times in a million movies, very often more convincingly than starwars (though not more profitably).  I guess I'm just sick of that 4th disc of the star wars dvd set where he makes himself out like some kind of god.  For a man who has now apparently made TWO good movies, I just feel like he's pushing his genius on us a bit too hard...

By "good movies" you must mean something exclusive of popular movies. While it is true that things can be both popular and lacking in quality, I am not sufficiently familiar Lucas' films to critique them. It is really hard to analyze what in a film makes it popular. Most any attempt will rely heavily on post hoc reasoning, which is logically falacious. Let us therefore assume that the first 1, 2, or even 3 films released in this series contained elements that had sufficient appeal or quality to compensate for a lack of it in the prequels. I think that the advertising build up to the films' release and the general anticipation of the fans (based upon their enjoyment of 4-6) would account for much of the loyalty at the box office. Nevertheless, this is also post hoc reasoning.

However, people's likes and dislikes vary greatly.

In re to Campbell, have you seen the Moyers interview? I disagree with his politics, but as I recall, I watched the interview while I was taking a mythology class. We had already discussed a good bit of Campbell's ideas when I viewed the DVD. I will eventually glimpse through my notes to refresh myself on this.

Here is Netflix' Page for Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth.

Campbell died shortly after this interview, & I do not know if this was before or after Jedi. Anyway, it was an interesting interview.

[dannavy85]

Lucas revolutionized special effects creation, that's why the original STAR WARS didn't bomb, as Lucas thought it would. Otherwise he really hasn't made any good Sci Fi based Jondrah films. American Grafitti, while nice for the Baby Boomers, is an absolute suck for a 50's era movie.

He also showed savvy in marketing his product line, which helped to offset any potentional fall out from poor movie showings. You just have to avoid all the toys now that are made in Chinese slave sweat shops.

Worst of the entire series? Has to be Phantom Menace, that movie sucked totally. Jar Jar should have been a character swiftly killed off by a rabid Tawn Tawn, crazed Namboozian Tazmainian Devil or something. That "Meesah" stuff got old quick and the whole thing was made for kids, big mistake there.

Oh well...I guess we can wait for the 10th anniversary DVD when he somehow graphs the Barbara Streisand death robot into the space ship combat scenes so that "Annie" can look more tough.

No thanks George, I'll pass on your garbage this time.

[O2Destroyer]

Originally posted by jeffbert@May 21 2005, 09:37 AM



By "good movies" you must mean something exclusive of popular movies. While it is true that things can be both popular and lacking in quality, I am not sufficiently familiar Lucas' films to critique them. It is really hard to analyze what in a film makes it popular. Most any attempt will rely heavily on post hoc reasoning, which is logically falacious. Let us therefore assume that the first 1, 2, or even 3 films released in this series contained elements that had sufficient appeal or quality to compensate for a lack of it in the prequels. I think that the advertising build up to the films' release and the general anticipation of the fans (based upon their enjoyment of 4-6) would account for much of the loyalty at the box office. Nevertheless, this is also post hoc reasoning.

However, people's likes and dislikes vary greatly.

In re to Campbell, have you seen the Moyers interview? I disagree with his politics, but as I recall, I watched the interview while I was taking a mythology class. We had already discussed a good bit of Campbell's ideas when I viewed the DVD. I will eventually glimpse through my notes to refresh myself on this.

Here is Netflix' Page for Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth.

Campbell died shortly after this interview, & I do not know if this was before or after [b]Jedi. Anyway, it was an interesting interview. [/b]

OK, first off let me explain what I mean by two good movies...

1) Empire was NOT directed by Lucas, and while he clearly wrote it, a move is much more than the writing. You can't use Empire as evidence that Lucas is a good director or movie producer, since he did neither with that film.

2) Raiders of the Lost Ark came from a rather smallish story idea Lucas had. Again, this is NOT a Lucas film. He didn't direct it and I do not believe he was responsible for any significant part in production of the film short of funding and his original story idea.

3) A New Hope is of course classic. While its status may be accidental, I have no problem acknowledging it as a good film, but I think we can see by clunker after clunker that its success has a lot more to do with its revolutionary special effects and its very different take on sci-fi for that time than any amazing skill Lucas had at directing.

4) ROTJ is OK.

5) Willow, Howard the Duck and Star Wars Ep. 1 & 2 are...well, I'm sure you know what I'd say here.

6) I haven't seen the new one, but word is that it is quite good.

Subsequently, I think we can say Lucas has made one or two films that are 'quite good'. What? That's it? Isn't Lucas a legend? Where is the evidence then? On what mountain of fantastic cinema is this riding on? I don't see it. I see one or maybe two good films. In my mind, Lucas has a lot to do with luck

I'm further disturbed by how the actual story for star wars is really just average/mediocre sci fi pulp. There is very little there that hadn't been written (in one form or another) by the 1920's and 30's.

And yes, I've read a lot of Campbell, Jung and a lot of the other folks from that school of thought--and I've also seen the multi-part video you're talking about. I just think it gets overblown when we talk about Lucas. Again, I think you could get what Lucas seems to understand about Campbell from reading the back of one of his books.

So anyway, I'm not trying to hate on the man; he's made some fun films. But I don't worship him either and don't see the cinematic evidence to support his status.

[jeffbert]

I do not worship anyone, either. But I am willing to admit when I enjoy a film, even though it may have parts I dislike.

As for JJB, I bought this $40 plush kids' bed buddy talking alarm clock JJB for $4 on clearance at Toys R Us. it was just too cheap and funny to pass up!

As much as I think the character was totally dumb, I believe he was needed to keeps kids attention. As I recall, there were a few scenes in Phantom that were rather slow and almost dull. When in the palace, the only interesting thing was JJB's behavior.

As for Lucas, I do not care who or what made the film. I do not care who starred in it. I simply know what I like.

As for the 30s and 40s, I thought it was Lucas' intention to make the film similar to the Flash Gordon, Duck--er Buck Rodgers, etc. genre. The scrolling marquee at the beginning was supposed to be like the next segment in a cliff hanger serial.

BTW, I lucked out, and visited the A & Space museum just when the Star Wars exhibit was there. The M. Falcon was displayed, & I noted more than a few parts from models of German Tanks of WWII on it. Just about everywhere there was a vent or fan assembly, was a rear deck of a 1/35 scale Panther tank. I built a few of those in my childhood, and recognised them immediately. :wahah:

[O2Destroyer]

Originally posted by jeffbert@May 21 2005, 02:15 PM

As for the 30s and 40s, I thought it was Lucas' intention to make the film similar to the Flash Gordon, Duck--er Buck Rodgers, etc. genre. The scrolling marquee at the beginning was supposed to be like the next segment in a cliff hanger serial.

Right. I'm not sure we're actually in disagreement on anything. I DO like star wars, I just keep hearing Lucas made up like some kind of genius.

[Danny]

Originally posted by dannavy85@May 21 2005, 01:30 PM
Lucas revolutionized special effects creation

American Grafitti, while nice for the Baby Boomers, is an absolute suck for a 50's era movie.

Worst of the entire series? Has to be Phantom Menace, that movie sucked totally.

Lucas only did one original SPFX, and that did not appear until ESB. Every other effect was simply a pre-existing technique (some around since the silent era) that his people managed to either tweak or make more accessible.

American Grafitti is the only "good" movie Lucas as made. Once again, however, as it was a "homage" movie (again..) there was still nothing new or fresh invilved.

I have yet to see ep3 and am in no rush to do so. Taking that into consideration even ep1 was far superior to the craptastic tripe that was ep2. I mean ep2 had (almsot) no Jar Jar and it still blew the big one.