Dragon Ball

[Shiyonasan]

With a new Dragon Ball anime having just started, why not start a thread about Dragon Ball?

I know Dragon Ball is not everyone's cup of tea on here. Dragon Ball is quite different from Astro Boy (though the author of Dragon Ball was influenced by Osamu Tezuka and Astro Boy). However, I do know that there are some members on here that have watched it and enjoyed it.

For me personally, I've enjoyed the series since 1999 when I watched some of Dragon Ball Z on the old version of Toonami (a programming block on Cartoon Network). It's now my favorite anime series.

Do any of you enjoy Dragon Ball? Do you have a favorite series, favorite character, etc.?

[Earthshine]

I admit I used to be a pretty big fan of the series when it was aired on Toonami back in the early 2000s, I was about 12 when I became a fan of it and I remained a fan until Funimation finished dubbing DBZ. I never got into GT, because all the reviews for it pretty much said the same thing, and I could never get into Dragon Ball because I found the humor to be too juvenile for my liking.

That being said I'm not a terribly big fan of the series now and in fact I can barely stand watching one episode of it before wanting to put something else in, my tastes just sort of shifted.

However I still have a fondness for the series and good memories attached to it so I don't really have anything horrendous to say about it, and I admit I've fallen pretty far behind in its reboots and new movies click for spoiler(apparently Vegeta has a brother???)

I really REALLY loved the science fiction aspect of the series, I loved the aliens and their biology (the Namekians being mono-sex really intrigued me) and Frieza to me will ALWAYS be the ultimate villain. He was the worst CEO of a hostile company/empire you could possibly imagine having wealth beyond measure and strength beyond comprehension. He was the perfect antagonist and really made you just feel for the Saiyan race and how much they had to suffer being forced to swear allegiance (or else) to that monstrosity.

click for spoilerSo when Frieza was finally destroyed by Goku I really felt satisfied, it was the perfect ending. Goku became the legendary Super Saiyan and avenged his species and all ties were closed.... Then it just kept going... and going.

Looking back on the series now I would have just preferred it to end with the death of Frieza, even if I do genuinely like some of the characters that show up in later seasons (such as Trunks and Goten).

If I had to pick a favorite character it would have to be Tenshinhan/Tien. I always liked his cool personality and monkish demeanor but he also was incredibly strong and could (if he wanted to) probably go toe-to-toe with some of the more powerful alien characters and while he might not beat them, he could certainly make them hurt a bit. I just really also liked his brotherly relationship with Chiaotsu, coming from a situation where I did not have a family I sort of imagined Tenshinhan being my "ideal older brother" (one of many actually).

My LEAST favorite character would actually probably be Goku, I found him to be a little annoying even if he was pure of heart which is at odd with some of my other favorite characters from other series being from the same more-or-less disposition. click for spoilerI think him constantly ignoring his children, wife and friends in an attempt to "train" really really bothered me, even if he had good intentions and was a good person all in all. It just was something I could not ignore.

There is a lot that can be said about this series both good and bad but it certainly was unique.

As I said above I never watched the newer dubs or versions (what is KAI?) but I remember the older dubs very well, I even have the soundtracks produced by Funimation still! I also have a couple IF Labs figures that I never removed from their boxes in my closet with a bunch of other things I don't plan on selling but don't want in my general sight.

[Shiyonasan]

I never got into GT, because all the reviews for it pretty much said the same thing, and I could never get into Dragon Ball because I found the humor to be too juvenile for my liking.

It's interesting with GT, because in recent years, there's been a group of fans who admit to enjoying GT. I personally don't mind it and actually own all 64 episodes on DVD (along with the entirety of DB and Z). Of the original three anime series, it is certainly my least favorite. It does have it's problems, such as plotholes, but it's not the worst anime series out there.

As for Dragon Ball's humor, I can see that being a turnoff for many people. I am personally not a huge fan of crude/toilet humor, but I think I've always given Dragon Ball a pass because of the way the jokes are executed and because of my nostalgic enjoyment of the series.

Early Dragon Ball is definitely very crude though. By the middle of that series though, the crude humor happens less often. I think you might enjoy the later parts of the original Dragon Ball because it's a lot like Dragon Ball Z, but with much less crude humor. The style of fighting is also interesting because it's more like a martial arts flick. The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc in particular is actually my favorite arc from that series because of how well some of the fights are choreographed.

However I still have a fondness for the series and good memories attached to it so I don't really have anything horrendous to say about it, and I admit I've fallen pretty far behind in its reboots and new movies click for spoiler(apparently Vegeta has a brother???)

click for spoilerYep! In the 2008 special, Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!, it's revealed that Vegeta has a younger brother named Tarble.

I really REALLY loved the science fiction aspect of the series, I loved the aliens and their biology (the Namekians being mono-sex really intrigued me) and Frieza to me will ALWAYS be the ultimate villain. He was the worst CEO of a hostile company/empire you could possibly imagine having wealth beyond measure and strength beyond comprehension. He was the perfect antagonist and really made you just feel for the Saiyan race and how much they had to suffer being forced to swear allegiance (or else) to that monstrosity.

click for spoilerSo when Frieza was finally destroyed by Goku I really felt satisfied, it was the perfect ending. Goku became the legendary Super Saiyan and avenged his species and all ties were closed.... Then it just kept going... and going.

I also love the science fiction aspect of the series. The Android/Cell arc in Dragon Ball Z comes to mind.

Freeza is a great villain too. I personally don't care for him much, but from an objective point of view, he's probably the best villain in DBZ for the reasons you gave.

click for spoilerLooking back on the series now I would have just preferred it to end with the death of Frieza, even if I do genuinely like some of the characters that show up in later seasons (such as Trunks and Goten).

It mainly kept going because the Japanese fans wanted it to keep going back when it aired.

I know a lot of fans share the same sentiment as you though for wanting the series to end at that point. I'm indifferent about it, because I do enjoy the arcs that follow it (the Cell and Buu arcs more than the Garlic Jr. arc).

If I had to pick a favorite character it would have to be Tenshinhan/Tien. I always liked his cool personality and monkish demeanor but he also was incredibly strong and could (if he wanted to) probably go toe-to-toe with some of the more powerful alien characters and while he might not beat them, he could certainly make them hurt a bit. I just really also liked his brotherly relationship with Chiaotsu, coming from a situation where I did not have a family I sort of imagined Tenshinhan being my "ideal older brother" (one of many actually).

Good character. His arc in the original Dragon Ball series is my favorite for the reasons mentioned above.

I kind of wish he and the other human characters remained relevant in the series, but sadly, after the Freeza arc, that just wasn't the case.

My LEAST favorite character would actually probably be Goku, I found him to be a little annoying even if he was pure of heart which is at odd with some of my other favorite characters from other series being from the same more-or-less disposition. click for spoilerI think him constantly ignoring his children, wife and friends in an attempt to "train" really really bothered me, even if he had good intentions and was a good person all in all. It just was something I could not ignore.

Goku no doubt has flaws about him. I don't dislike him, but he's not my favorite character either. Your points are well-taken too; I've heard them before from other fans and can see their point of view.

He is written very uniquely though, which I can appreciate.

(what is KAI?)

Kai is a revised version of DBZ made to be closer to the manga. It's in high-definition, had some re-animated frames, and has re-recorded audio. It's not that great in my opinion because the re-animated scenes look cheaply made and the story progression seems rushed compared to DBZ. If you want to read more about it, click this link (Dragon Ball Z Kai is the American name for the show. I assume the Z was added to attract more interest from fans).

[Earthshine]

Kai is a revised version of DBZ made to be closer to the manga. It's in high-definition, had some re-animated frames, and has re-recorded audio. It's not that great in my opinion because the re-animated scenes look cheaply made and the story progression seems rushed compared to DBZ

Well that's a shame, from one extreme of having fights that last too long to having things seem rushed. Maybe Dragon Ball Super will have a good balance.

What are your favorite characters/least favorite characters, Shiyonasan? Any particular favorite scenes?

I took a peek at the episode lists for Super and they sound promising, one of the main complaints I have about the series in general is that it doesn't have enough filler - episodes that although don't progress the plot at all but reveal things to the viewers that endear the characters further. The series does have them, usually between sagas, but they usually were always cluttered with more fighting that sort of turned me off.

[Shiyonasan]

What are your favorite characters/least favorite characters, Shiyonasan? Any particular favorite scenes?

My favorite character is Gohan. I'm more partial to when he was a preteen in the Android/Cell arc since he was the most useful at that point, but I like him as a character in general. I think I've always liked his pacifist nature; he only fights when he absolutely must. Also, Gohan and Videl are my favorite couple in the Dragon Ball series.

Goten is a very close second. He's got the silliness of Goku, but he seems a little more sensible than his father. Sure, he's similar in appearance to Kid Goku, but he's his own character. He's just a cute and fun character in general.

If I had to choose a least favorite character, it would have to be Recoome. I always found his character to be annoying for some reason.

I took a peek at the episode lists for Super and they sound promising, one of the main complaints I have about the series in general is that it doesn't have enough filler - episodes that although don't progress the plot at all but reveal things to the viewers that endear the characters further. The series does have them, usually between sagas, but they usually were always cluttered with more fighting that sort of turned me off.

Interesting that you say you like the filler; in the Dragon Ball fandom, you either like the filler or you don't.

I personally like the filler. That's one reason why I very much so prefer DBZ over Kai.

You're right in saying that it endears the characters further. I particularly like the Gohan filler in the Saiyan arc. In the manga, Gohan's training was pretty much nonexistent. The anime does a good job of telling short snippets of what Gohan's training probably was like, at least in my opinion. Most of the filler is fun in both DB and DBZ.

As for Super, the first episode is really good. The animation is great and the character interactions are interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next. The manga for it is pretty good so far as well.

One unrelated thing before I end this post: the Japanese soundtrack is one of my favorite aspects of Dragon Ball for both the anime and the video games. Shunsuke Kikuchi in particular made some excellent tracks for the series.

[Earthshine]

My favorite character is Gohan. I'm more partial to when he was a preteen in the Android/Cell arc since he was the most useful at that point, but I like him as a character in general. I think I've always liked his pacifist nature; he only fights when he absolutely must. Also, Gohan and Videl are my favorite couple in the Dragon Ball series.

Goten is a very close second. He's got the silliness of Goku, but he seems a little more sensible than his father. Sure, he's similar in appearance to Kid Goku, but he's his own character. He's just a cute and fun character in general.

I adored Gohan during the Cell saga as well, and it was then that I liked him as a character the best during the whole of the series. Sad to say after that saga when he becomes a teen I grew less of a fan of him click for spoilerdue to how his character just seemed to shift towards the comical relief (or at least that's how I interpreted it) with his antics as Saiyaman and general goofiness. I was really shocked when I saw those episodes. I didn't mind some of his joking as with his training with the Supreme Kai and the Z sword, but the balance to me seemed off when it came to him and his campy behavior.

Goten is so so so cute, I loved him, for all the reasons which you stated. click for spoilerUnfortunately if I remember rightly his character is in a way treated much like some of the others in GT and the last few episodes of Z where he sort of drops off entirely in importance. I don't mind that it hinted that he really didn't continue with his training after the Buu saga, it would make sense considering all that he went through if he just wanted to live "normally" and adopt even more of a pacifist demeanor than Gohan. But that's just me and what I remember, I could be WAY off.

As for couples in the series I'm afraid I really don't have much of an opinion of ANY of them because there really was not a whole lot of focus on them to show how they interacted or their chemistry and much is left up for the audience to make up, which I don't mind. click for spoilerI think I find Vegeta and Bulma the most interesting considering where each person came from, their dynamics is much like putting out a fire with gasoline. I also like that the two characters that changed the most in the series ended up together!

If I had to choose a least favorite character, it would have to be Recoome. I always found his character to be annoying for some reason.

I don't have much of an opinion of Recoome other than I could not take him seriously AT ALL and he was more or less a comic relief character. I couldn't really take him at face value for being as threatening as he was, maybe it was the original dub, but his dialog just didn't seem to fit. I bet if I watched the episodes again though I might like him, I've found in recent years that I tend to like strange characters that others don't (like Alfrid in The Hobbit movies. Mr. Satan/Hercule is also one of those characters that I actually like where most others do not, but I didn't like him originally. Now he's just too funny and ridiculous for me to really hate and he turned out really important and three dimensional, even if at times I wanted to reach into the screen and strangle him.

I personally like the filler. That's one reason why I very much so prefer DBZ over Kai.

You're right in saying that it endears the characters further. I particularly like the Gohan filler in the Saiyan arc. In the manga, Gohan's training was pretty much nonexistent. The anime does a good job of telling short snippets of what Gohan's training probably was like, at least in my opinion. Most of the filler is fun in both DB and DBZ.

I personally feel that in all series you need to have a balance when it comes to filler and plot centric episodes; the viewer needs a break sometimes and we need to know the character on a more personal and sometimes domestic level. What do they do when they are not constantly fighting or thinking about whatever is the main plot? What is their favorite food? Simple things that give characters more depth. I found that one of my favorite series, Saint Seiya, had absolutely NO FILLER at all and in the end we find that we know absolutely nothing about the characters beyond how they act when they are fighting, not good. But if a series has too much filler then it gets boring and the series seems pointless and more episodic when it is not supposed to be and that's not good either. So a good balance is always needed.

So in the end I feel that in DBZ just a touch more filler could have been warranted so we get to know what the characters are doing and who they are a little more. What does Vegeta do when he's not training? Surly he isn't brooding all day every day.

I loved the filler episodes when they appeared every so often and I agree with you the ones with Gohan training with Piccolo were golden and are some of my favorite episodes. click for spoilerI love how Gohan slowly begins to crack Piccolo little by little and Piccolo slowly becomes more of his surrogate father and we see him become more compassionate.

I also liked the car filler episode with Goku and Piccolo, which just proved that through all of Piccolo's griping and brooding, he's just a big colossal nerd.

As for Super, the first episode is really good. The animation is great and the character interactions are interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next. The manga for it is pretty good so far as well

I may just watch some of it for nostalgia feels than anything if I get an opportunity to, as I said I may not be a huge fan of the series now but I respect it and care enough for the characters to be curious about what they are doing. I wanted to find a new anime to watch anyway (though I AM looking forward to the new Black Jack anime coming soon).

the Japanese soundtrack is one of my favorite aspects of Dragon Ball for both the anime and the video games. Shunsuke Kikuchi in particular made some excellent tracks for the series.

I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with the original score of DBZ as the only one that I am familiar with is Bruce Falconer's re-score for the Funimation dub, it is these tracks that I am in ownership of and enjoy. I'll have to look up the original score and listen to it sometime to get a true opinion of it.

[Shiyonasan]

I adored Gohan during the Cell saga as well, and it was then that I liked him as a character the best during the whole of the series. Sad to say after that saga when he becomes a teen I grew less of a fan of him click for spoilerdue to how his character just seemed to shift towards the comical relief (or at least that's how I interpreted it) with his antics as Saiyaman and general goofiness. I was really shocked when I saw those episodes. I didn't mind some of his joking as with his training with the Supreme Kai and the Z sword, but the balance to me seemed off when it came to him and his campy behavior.

I personally like Great Saiyaman myself and the goofiness in the early Buu arc, but to each their own opinion.

Gohan's training during the Buu arc is pretty interesting as well, and he has a good fight with Super Buu, but I hate how click for spoilerhe ends up losing to Buu anyway after all his hard work. By the end of the Buu arc, it was essentially all Goku with some minor assistance from other characters.

Goten is so so so cute, I loved him, for all the reasons which you stated. click for spoilerUnfortunately if I remember rightly his character is in a way treated much like some of the others in GT and the last few episodes of Z where he sort of drops off entirely in importance. I don't mind that it hinted that he really didn't continue with his training after the Buu saga, it would make sense considering all that he went through if he just wanted to live "normally" and adopt even more of a pacifist demeanor than Gohan. But that's just me and what I remember, I could be WAY off.

Yeah, his character becomes much less important in GT. In fact, in the first arc, he is supposed to aid Goku and Trunks in finding a new set of dragonballs to prevent Earth from annihilation, but Pan ends up going instead because she sneaks on board with Goku and Trunks.

Beyond that, Goten tries to fight off some baddies in GT, but ends up failing most of the time.

In fact, some of us have a joke about GT in that it doesn't stand for "Grand Tour", but rather "Goku Time", because of how much Goku is emphasized in GT over the other characters. If there's one thing I can say that I dislike about GT, it's that other characters often get shafted or become very unimportant to the plot in order to put Goku in the limelight.

As for couples in the series I'm afraid I really don't have much of an opinion of ANY of them because there really was not a whole lot of focus on them to show how they interacted or their chemistry and much is left up for the audience to make up, which I don't mind. click for spoilerI think I find Vegeta and Bulma the most interesting considering where each person came from, their dynamics is much like putting out a fire with gasoline. I also like that the two characters that changed the most in the series ended up together!

Vegeta and Bulma are an interesting couple. I think it was ingenious on Toriyama's part to put those two together into a couple.

Mr. Satan/Hercule is also one of those characters that I actually like where most others do not, but I didn't like him originally. Now he's just too funny and ridiculous for me to really hate and he turned out really important and three dimensional, even if at times I wanted to reach into the screen and strangle him.

Mr. Satan had grown on me over the years as well. I used to dislike him a lot, but now I find a lot of the gags or jokes with him to be funny.

I personally feel that in all series you need to have a balance when it comes to filler and plot centric episodes; the viewer needs a break sometimes and we need to know the character on a more personal and sometimes domestic level. What do they do when they are not constantly fighting or thinking about whatever is the main plot? What is their favorite food? Simple things that give characters more depth. I found that one of my favorite series, Saint Seiya, had absolutely NO FILLER at all and in the end we find that we know absolutely nothing about the characters beyond how they act when they are fighting, not good. But if a series has too much filler then it gets boring and the series seems pointless and more episodic when it is not supposed to be and that's not good either. So a good balance is always needed.

So in the end I feel that in DBZ just a touch more filler could have been warranted so we get to know what the characters are doing and who they are a little more. What does Vegeta do when he's not training? Surly he isn't brooding all day every day.

Good points, and I agree. I think DBZ had the right amount of filler, but I wouldn't have minded a little more if it was added.

Your point about a series having too much filler reminds me of Naruto and Bleach; the last 90 or so episodes of the original Naruto anime are nothing but filler that they did to allow the author to get ahead in the story, and Bleach has 3 full seasons of filler, if I remember correctly. I watched the entirety of Naruto, but never got through Bleach. I think it's ridiculous how much filler those series have though.

click for spoilerI love how Gohan slowly begins to crack Piccolo little by little and Piccolo slowly becomes more of his surrogate father and we see him become more compassionate.

Indeed! Piccolo is arguably a better father to Gohan and Goten then Goku ever is.

Piccolo is actually my third favorite character; I like his character development over the series.

I also liked the car filler episode with Goku and Piccolo, which just proved that through all of Piccolo's griping and brooding, he's just a big colossal nerd.

Yes! That's one of my favorite episodes (though I think it is for everyone who's watched it as well)!