Kimba/Simba

[Dragonrider1227]

Okay, this is my final thought on the whole "Disney ripped off Kimba"thing. I've looked at the evidence, i've heard opinions and I feel that it's possible that Disney took alot of ideas from Kimba and it may very well be a rip off. (I seem to recall Michael Eisner becoming a real IDIOT at that time) but I must say this. Why does everyone complain when The Lion King has some similarities to Kimba, yet no one seems to mention Astroboy's simularities to Pinnochio? :huh: I mean, think about it.
They're both inhuman children
They both want to be real boys
They both end up in cruel circus's
They're both extremly cute and innocent
Now, I don't think Astroboy is any more of a rip off as The Lion King, but it does give you something to think about. Okay, i'll offically now shut up about the topic.

[O2Destroyer]

I really feel like the similarities in lion king were more of a nod to kimba than a rip off. Just as much as Tezuka was doing nearly non-stop homages to Disney at one point in his career. Although people may be justified in wanting to criticize Disney, this is a case of the fans either not being too familiar with Kimba, or just wanting to jump on the bandwagon. Honestly, once you get past the similar characters, there isn't really too much there.

[DrFrag]

Tezuka was always open about being influenced by Pinnochio, Disney's copy of Kimba was much more blatant and they lied about it.

[Breakman]

Originally posted by DrFrag@Sep 28 2005, 03:54 AM
Tezuka was always open about being influenced by Pinnochio, Disney's copy of Kimba was much more blatant and they lied about it.

I second that. I also want to add that Pinnochio is public (plus there are many versions of the story depending on culture) and Astro Boy is copywrited.

This isn't the first time Disney done this. The Muppets is one example of copywrited work, but they thought since the characters are so old, the puppets are in public domain. To my knowledge, they belong to some German company...?

Eh. Whatever... Just rewrite history then everything would be okay. I am quite certain if THE Walt Disney and Osamu Tezuka were still alive, this wouldn't have happened or it would have happened differently...

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by O2Destroyer@Sep 27 2005, 07:04 AM
I really feel like the similarities in lion king were more of a nod to kimba than a rip off.  Just as much as Tezuka was doing nearly non-stop homages to Disney at one point in his career.  Although people may be justified in wanting to criticize Disney, this is a case of the fans either not being too familiar with Kimba, or just wanting to jump on the bandwagon.  Honestly, once you get past the similar characters, there isn't really too much there.

Perhaps the original intent was just that, a nod to Tezuka. However, in light of the flat-out denials that the Disney people had even heard of KTWL, much less been influenced by the series, I must conclude that they did rip-off Tezuka. It is a matter of borrowing material but failing to cite the sources from which it was borrowed. There are cases of unintentional plagiarism, such as writers using ideas from memory, but failing to remember that they got those ideas from someone else's work, but these cases are still classified as plagiarism.

Everytime I took a history class in college, I was required to complete a plagiarism awareness exercise, & I had it drilled into me half a dozen times. moreover, I was also required to submit my term papers to a third-party organization that would do a textual comparision between them and other term papers to see if any more than a few consecutive words matched. I became fearful not only of accidentally ommitting a citation, but that my original work would use three or four words that some other work already used. But now that is in the past, & I have recovered from the anxiety.

I suspect that some personnel changes might have occurred on the team that worked on the Lion King, or perhaps within the top management at the Disney company that made it, because I read something about Eisner himself or some other high-ranking person saying something about making their own version of KTWL.

[dannavy85]

Well the Disney people can't openly admit that they got the idea from Kimba because that would open them to a lawsuit by Mushi Studios for plagerism. I don't like Disney but I will admit their sub companies have done a great job with Myazaki's anime.

[Dragonrider1227]

Originally posted by jeffbert+Sep 30 2005, 05:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jeffbert @ Sep 30 2005, 05:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--O2Destroyer@Sep 27 2005, 07:04 AM
I really feel like the similarities in lion king were more of a nod to kimba than a rip off.  Just as much as Tezuka was doing nearly non-stop homages to Disney at one point in his career.  Although people may be justified in wanting to criticize Disney, this is a case of the fans either not being too familiar with Kimba, or just wanting to jump on the bandwagon.  Honestly, once you get past the similar characters, there isn't really too much there.

Perhaps the original intent was just that, a nod to Tezuka. However, in light of the flat-out denials that the Disney people had even heard of KTWL, much less been influenced by the series, I must conclude that they did rip-off Tezuka. It is a matter of borrowing material but failing to cite the sources from which it was borrowed. There are cases of unintentional plagiarism, such as writers using ideas from memory, but failing to remember that they got those ideas from someone else's work, but these cases are still classified as plagiarism. [/b][/quote]
I think I could believe that more than Eisner standing at a confrence saying "We're going to do our own version of KTWL" of course, this might've been the begining Eisner's time insanity so who knows. This is the same guy that recently fired the big animation staff that made movies like those in favor of CGI so I wouldn't put it TOO far past him. Although practiclly saving the company, i'm actually glad he's out now.

I am quite certain if THE Walt Disney and Osamu Tezuka were still alive, this wouldn't have happened or it would have happened differently...

You know, it's a shame Walt and Tezuka never met and worked on something together. I mean, could you imagine what they could've brought us if they "combined their powers?"

[Breakman]

Originally posted by Dragonrider1227@Oct 2 2005, 04:50 AM
You know, it's a shame Walt and Tezuka never met and worked on something together. I mean, could you imagine what they could've brought us if they "combined their powers?"

They did meet. In Disney World, Florida. XP As how most reports go, Tezuka was giddy to finally meet Disney and Disney was happy to see the "Walt Disney of Japan."

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by dannavy85@Oct 1 2005, 10:39 AM
Well the Disney people can't openly admit that they got the idea from Kimba because that would open them to a lawsuit by Mushi Studios for plagerism. I don't like Disney but I will admit their sub companies have done a great job with Myazaki's anime.

There is a difference (fuzzy or gray though it may be) between copyright infringement & plagiarism. For the Disney people to openly admit that they drew ideas from KTWL when creationg the Lion King would be no worse than Tezuka stating that KTWL was inspired by Bambi, which he did in fact say.

Movie makers often use ideas from other movies. Clint Eastwood borrowed heavily from Kurosawa's 'Yojimbo' when he made "Fistfull of Dollars." He borrowed the basic plot and several scenes, but there was no problem, because he openly admitted it, & perhaps obtained permission also (but I do not know about this for certain).

In fact, American movie makers thrice used plots from Kurosawa when making Westerns. The parallels between these two originals Yojimbo and KTWL and the American films inspired by them:

• Overall plots:
  
  • Roaming "sword for hire" inspires roaming "gun for hire"
  • He plays both gangs against each other (note that Daffy Duck also did this to Foghorn Leghorn & the dog :lol
• characters:
  
  • 'Unbeatable' tough guys: Yojimbo & the man with no name
  • Bada$$es a Samurai & Ramone
• certain scenes:
  
  • Y: "Make that three coffins" & MWNN: "Make that four Coffins"
  • etc.

• Overall plots:
  
  • Evil usurper tries to eliminate the rightful heir to the throne.
• characters:
  
  • Lion cub heir to the throne
  • usurper
  • bird
  • etc.
• certain scenes:
  
  • cub hanging off cliff
  • etc.

It is simply a matter of honestly stating that ideas were borrowed.

[Dragonrider1227]

true that. I can't deny that. If they borrowed from Kimba, the least they could do is give some deserved credit.