Originally posted by wildpegasus@Nov 18 2004, 12:54 PM
Well, may as well move some of the information from there over to here!
"Livian's support was comforting but far from motherly, she simply lacked the power to counter Guiss' evil."
WP -- I can't exactly agree with this one. Livian didn't have the powere to counter all the evil that was put into Atlas but she obviously had influence. Astro being saved from death underneath the sea by Atlas is a great example of this. Livian being the motherly influence on Atlas is what gives Atlas some good inside him which in turn results in Astro's life getting saved. I always got the vibe that while Livian was without doubt a friend her interaction with Atlas was totally that of what a mothere would do.
Now one of the questions is who was around Atlas more? Skunk, Guiss or Livian? I can't remember but I was always under the impression Atlas was surrounded more often by evil than good aka Livian. That's a lot of influence on Atlas and when you're at that impressionable age you tend to take the word of those that have been around longer as fact even if it doesn't feel completely right. Livian despite not being around as much has a tremendous (and of course it's conflicting advice which would make it even harder for Livian to get through to Atlas) influence because when Livian dies for absolutely nothing it sends Atlas over the edge to the point where it appears that Guiss dies. That influence was motherly. Mothers care for their kids and make them prepared for the world that awaits them. That was what Livian did.
Your analysis seems correct; Livian's influence was crucial in Atlas' last minute decision to spare Atom, no doubt about that. However, for the purpose of my argument, I did not need to go into detail about Livian's influence on Atlas. While it is true that she was the closest thing to a mother Atlas ever had, if she had indeed been his mother, she would no doubt have been more forceful in dealing with Guiss. She was a maid, though, and had been serving Guiss for some time before Atlas came along. Thus, she well knew of her master's wrath. As a female, she had compassion for Atlas, but as a maid, she knew it was not her place to intercede for him. Her purpose was not to be his mother, but to be the maid. Guiss was therefore angered with her for interfering with Atlas' training. If she had her way, he would be of little use to Guiss. Compare her to Kathy & you will see that Kathy was far more forceful in dealing with her employer than Livian was with her master.
Guiss and Skunk were about the only humans Atlas ever knew, and although he had hatred for Guiss, he was not too thrilled with Skunk. As such, he had a dim view of humans. He would just as soon have killed him, too, except that it was too much of a bother. While Skunk had yelled at him a few times, only Guiss had really been hateful toward him. It was Guiss, who dismantled Livian, thus depriving Atlas of the only source of kindness he ever knew. Yet, Skunk shared Guiss' goals for Atlas. He would be the one who most reminded Atlas of Guiss, and therefore would be a target.
That Atlas was influenced by Livian's admonishment to be kind to those weaker than himself, itself seems indicative of Tenma's having created a design that was predisposed to do good, rather than evil. Livian had so little time with Atlas, and yet her influence made a powerful impression upon him. All the time he had been with Skunk, who was trying to turn him into a criminal, & yet, he instead chose to oppose all humans, not just those who had what he wanted. Was she 'motherly' towards him? Not by his standard. If I am not mistaken, he asked her to be his mother. If this is so, he must have had in him an idea of what a mother should be. She never had the chance to be his mother, though; for when he rebuilt her, he made her just as much a cowering servant to him, as she had been to Guiss. Yet, she did help Atom escape the Crystal Castle. So, it seems that he did not totally deprive her of free will. Yet, he was not willing to risk losing her, he therefore did not give her the Omega Factor, that enabled him to choose whom he would serve.
Your analysis seems correct; Livian's influence was crucial in Atlas' last minute decision to spare Atom, no doubt about that. However, for the purpose of my argument, I did not need to go into detail about Livian's influence on Atlas
Yeah, I know. I was just taking the topic off topic somewhat.
While it is true that she was the closest thing to a mother Atlas ever had, if she had indeed been his mother, she would no doubt have been more forceful in dealing with Guiss. She was a maid, though, and had been serving Guiss for some time before Atlas came along. Thus, she well knew of her master's wrath. As a female, she had compassion for Atlas, but as a maid, she knew it was not her place to intercede for him. Her purpose was not to be his mother, but to be the maid
This is why I like Livian so much. She wasn't in an enviornment that gave rewards for helping out Atlas. She didn't seem to be built for that either. So it goes against some natural inclinations to be motherly to Atlas but yet she does so. I would say the motherly instinct was very strong to be able to do what Livian did considering her surroundings. Livian wasn't stupid either. We saw why Livian died. A broken lamp = death???? She knew the explosive nature of Guiss and the power he had so standing up to Guiss wouldn't have been practical. If a lamp is enough for death than what would standing up to him do for somebody else? She did what she could. "Logical" as Spock might say.
In comparison we have Kathy. Was she more motherly? I can't go back to watch anything because I lent my Astroboy footage out to a friend but I do remember that Kathy had better surroundings. Yes, Kathy was in a controlled enviornment as well but the repricussions for doing whatever would not be as harsh as they would be for Livian. Kathy who was a human would also have more worldly surroundings and knowldege to do what she could to help Astro.
Really, Kathy reminded me more of an awesome friend that was part motherly than Livian who reminded me more of what a mother is. (Did Livian pat Atlas like a mother would to a child? I can't remember) Livian is the one who had more influence in shaping Atlas' charactor in comparison to the influence Kathy had on Astro which is what a mother would do.
It'd be interesting to see what happen if Kathy and Livian could magically change places because that would put Kathy in a more motherly posistion than she had with Astro. Kathy may have been more motherly but I don't think her motherly instinct was as strong.
If I am not mistaken, he asked her to be his mother. If this is so, he must have had in him an idea of what a mother should be. She never had the chance to be his mother, though; for when he rebuilt her, he made her just as much a cowering servant to him, as she had been to Guiss. Yet, she did help Atom escape the Crystal Castle. So, it seems that he did not totally deprive her of free will. Yet, he was not willing to risk losing her, he therefore did not give her the Omega Factor, that enabled him to choose whom he would serve.
I say Atlas loved Livian so much that he just built her exactly the same way she was built before. No modifications at all which must mean that she meant a lot to him and had a lot of influence on him when he was young. After Livian is rebuilt though she reminds me more of a romantic link to Atlas though than a mother.
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Hey all! 
AWW! 
What? only 13 views and no replies. Hmm, I guess Livian and Atlas weren't as popular as I thought. I think Livian is cute as hell, and together her and Atlas make a cute couple. Come on LL Jade, back me up here. 
Let's keep this thread alive. 
and replaced by a different looking Atlas, but this time Atlas was a cross between Cobolt and The Blue Knight, complete with horse. In the current series Atlas and the blue knight were seperate characters again and Atlas looked liked he did in the 50's and 60's.
