Who do you hate/dislike in Astroboy anime and why ?

[Astro Forever]

I've also wondered about Astro's parents. The family owns a house, the parents aren't working, the father is in elementary school IIRC from the 1980 series... how are they paying to support themlselves?

Plus, Astro is brighter than his parents, who seem totally programmed. They get mad at Astro for leaving in the middle of the night, as if there weren't greater things for him to do than to sleep. Uran comes one morning to announce Jump has disappeard and his house is smashed to pieces, and they keep telling her to say "good morning"!

The only episode in which I find them funny is in Uran's Twin... probably because they act exactly like some human parents!

[jeffbert]

[QUOTE=jeffbert;120629][QUOTE=Xenops;120527]
Probably my biggest qualm is...Astro's outfit. *ducks as fellow members pelt her with nuts and bolts* I much prefer him in "civilian clothing". In the 1960's anime it doesn't matter because he never is off duty, but in the 2003 anime he goes about his business in his trunks and boots. :d oh: If you're in society, dress like appropriately. I'm not bothered by him showing "skin", but nothing says "Robot! Here!" than him dressing differently from the humans.

I also think that it would have been better for the '03 to properly clothe him in other episodes besides SPACE CAMP & VOLCANO ISLAND.

Several have said that Atom's parents were somewhat superfluous, that they were pointless, etc. But Tenma made him to replace Tobio, & that means he came complete with the need for parents, or, at least a papa. What good would a robot be, if it only bore a physical resemblance to Tobio? Atom looked to Tenma for approval, just as Tobio did. Tenma is shown smiling at him, and such, and Atom was apparently positively affected by Tenma's contentment with him. When Tenma realized that this robot could not possibly replace Tobio, he drastically changed his treatment of Atom, & Atom was very saddened by this.

As for him wanting parents after Ochanomizu had taken him in, check this page:
Astroboy's Parents

I add that the Black Lux story both opens & closes with a child finding comfort on mama's lap. [/QUOTE]

AH HAH! I have been waiting for this moment for awhile now! *Cracks dusty old debating knuckles.*

While I don't mind too much the fact that Dear Atom has robotic parents, and the reason can make sense, as Atom was for awhile kinda like one of those orphans who wish nothing more than foster parents. And given the way Tenma had poorly treated him and how much better off he was with Hoshie, it can be even more understandable.

...But, I sometimes have to wonder if robotic parents were really the right direction. The advantages to him having robotic parents is, as robots, they could relate to each other better and be better accepted by each other, during a time where humans and robots were not fond of each other. Even then, you still have humans from time to time who greatly like, respect and support robots, Ochanomizu not being the only one.

But then again, to also be presented with parents literally out of nowhere. Them being given to you with a mere "Here are your parents, kay thanks bye." is just... It's just much, and largely unnatural. Of course all robots are 'unnatural', but this really seems to stick out a sore thumb. If I were to be taken in by 'parents' who were literally created solely for me, I would actually feel offended. I would rather be taken in by a couple with more of a history behind them, because having something 'living' created only for me would be creepy, whether it was a human being, a robot or whatnot. Atom readily accepted them, but sometimes I even wonder if perhaps robots would feel the same as I would about the subject.

Many children are adopted by single caretakers, and accept them for what they are. Atom had no problems accepting O'Shay as his father-figure. And in the mean time, Tenma was fighting for him as well. Atom was having enough 'family'-problems at the time, and I don't think having robotic parents added to the mix would have helped it.

Even then, the main focus with the 2003 series was the human-robot conflict. The other series had multiple themes and moral-of-the-day, whereas the '03 series wanted to focus more on the one theme that Tezuka seemed to focus on the most with his sci-fi works, human vs another race. In that sense, perhaps the 2003 series could very well be more accurate than what it may appear to be. Either way, many things were not included in the 2003 series because of that.

But in the end, what matters most is that Atom is happy, he is happy having a single caretaker who the two have viewed each other as father and son. I can't help that some of this might be fueled by nostalgia, which I can completely understand. I have clung onto nostalgic feelings for the dear life of me as well.[/QUOTE]
This is a very good argument, but I have a rebuttal:
I am using my laptop now, so I will be brief, as typing on it is awkward.

Do you agree that in ALL versions:

1. Atom was initially loved and adored by his creator
2. Atom regarded this man as his father
3. Atom, as would any real boy, sought his attention and approval
4. Likewise, as would any real Boy, Atom would would think his papa was the best in the whole-wide world

If you disagree with any of these, please refer to it by #, & give your reason.


I cite your 3rd to last paragraph:

Many children are adopted by single caretakers, and accept them for what they are. Atom had no problems accepting O'Shay as his father-figure. And in the mean time, Tenma was fighting for him as well. Atom was having enough 'family'-problems at the time, and I don't think having robotic parents added to the mix would have helped it.

Your argument blurs all versions into 1, but this that you describe pertains only to the 2003 version. Read my page on ASTROBOY'S PARENTS. Atom was not just sitting there when they gave him parents. His friends saw Atom's response to the loving mother caring for her offspring, whether ducks, horses, or children. In the manga, Atom had dived into a fire to rescue his report card. The bully had teased him that his report card was worthless, because he had no parents to whom he could proudly present it. Tamao took him to his home, & Atom saw the family unit there. In the 1980s version, he saw the frightened children comforted by their mothers after the rescue from the ride. But nobody was there to embrace him.

I agree wholeheartedly that the parents were merely background characters in nearly all stories. As such, they contributed very little to the stories, and could have been written out of the scripts in most, without much loss. They were like mere decorations, serving little purpose except to cover a spot on the wall, similar to decorations.

[Dr. Jerk]

I did read the Atom's Parents essay once, this is what my arguement was targetting at, especially since "Something something Atom having no robotic parents in 03 series is just sad" really bugged me.

Now, for the rest of the post...

Do you agree that in ALL versions:
Atom was initially loved and adored by his creator
Atom regarded this man as his father
Atom, as would any real boy, sought his attention and approval
Likewise, as would any real Boy, Atom would would think his papa was the best in the whole-wide world

I agree with this, especially since all of these are canon, especially in the manga and 60's series. I however cannot agree so much with number 4, since Atom didn't really actively consider Tenma to be 'the best man in the whole wide world', heck even in the AB Tales manga series, he showed some doubt early on which little by little had grown.

Also, don't get me wrong, I do fully realize what Atom had went through without his robotic parents, I had even watched episode 2, Colosso, of the 60's series as well. And again, I understand why Atom felt as such, and that why I had described him "like an orphan wanting foster parents" since that was exactly what he was, in a sense. And Atom had whole-heartedly accepted them...

However the manga and older anime series were a lot more simpler than the 03 series, and had themes that would be easier for young kids to understand. The 2003 series also had relatively easy-to-understand concepts as well, but had expanded more on them. I imagine that if he were presented robotic parents in the 03 series, regardless of how desperate he was for parents, there would still be at least be a little tension. There certainly would be in reality.

My argument was mostly to pertain to the 03 series anyhow, as I was trying to argue that "having no robotic parents in the 03 series" is not "sad". He already has a "father"-like figure in the animation, someone who loves him enough to run into the ministry about to be destroyed by Tenma. That love is real and natural, whereas Atom's robotic parents were programmed to love. The only thing close was that 'Mitchy' was later kidnapped by Tenma and reprogrammed to act like Hoshie, but that is still just programming, and acting.

That isn't the same. And Atom wanted real love, which he had gotten in the 2003 series.

[AprilSeven]

I think Atom grew to love Tenma in the 03 series. Remember Atom had no idea who Tenma was in the beginning. Later Atom learned that Tenma was his troubled creator. He learned the story of how Tobio died, and how he came to be built, then deactivated, then reborn, thanks to O'Shay.

For most of the series Tenma was presented an ominous, disturbing presence to Atom. He had a crazy vision that Atom wanted no part of. Remember Atom even remarked, "You're creepy!"

It was only at the very end -- after Tenma tried to steal him away from O'Shay, and threaten him once more with deactivation, that Atom broke down his father's defenses (and his hardened heart) by saying "I forgive you."

All the while, poor, morbidly obese O'Shay is leaping over chasms trying to rescue Atom, whom he loves with his whole heart. The one scene that sums up the entire 2003 series for me, is when Astro (right after forgiving Tenma), turns to make sure O'Shay is alright, and tells him to be careful. Look at his face - he's torn between these two men, and yet he knows who's really been his dad.

[F-Man]

I hate doing this, but...

Remember Atom even remarked, "You're creepy!"
...
by saying "I forgive you."
...
and tells him to be careful.

He didn't say any of those things in the real language.

The first was Tenma saying "Soon we'll get an answer" to which Atom replied "An... answer?", the second one Atom says "Don't die, dad!", and the last he just shouts Ochanomizu's name.

Nice post, but I just had to say it. Sorry. ^^;

Note that I've never watched the dub, but these are all things I've seen being compared in the past.

[AprilSeven]

I hate doing this, but...

He didn't say any of those things in the real language.

The first was Tenma saying "Soon we'll get an answer" to which Atom replied "An... answer?", the second one Atom says "Don't die, dad!", and the last he just shouts Ochanomizu's name.

Nice post, but I just had to say it. Sorry. ^^;

Note that I've never watched the dub, but these are all things I've seen being compared in the past.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying, F-Man -- you DIDN'T see the episode that I saw? You saw an English dub of the original Japanese dialogue? OR YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE JAPANESE DIRECTLY?

So does that mean, Astro never "really" forgave Tenma -- and just said "Don't die, Dad!" ??

If THAT'S true -- it's kind of hard to have a discussion about these things, because all of a sudden you could find out that what you understood to be a powerful truth, is nothing but some translator getting creative!

Am I understanding this correctly? Anybody understand this too be true?

And if it IS true, then one could say that in the 2003 anime, Astro NEVER comes to love his dad, right?

soooo confusing!! and how do we know what to believe!!!!

I'D RATHER KNOW THE TRUTH - SO PLEASE DON'T HOLD BACK SHARING INFO LIKE THAT, AND THANK YOU FOR HELPING US KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.

[Xenops]

I think what F-man is saying is that is in the Japanese dubs with poor English subtitles, they did not say these things exactly. But when I watched said version, I got the same impression that you did AprilSeven.

Now if I can find them on Youtube again...

Edit: WingedMushroomOfDoom does have the first 19 or so Japanese dubbed, and then he finishes them on an external site.

[AprilSeven]

@Xenops - I was wondering if he meant something like that. I hope Astro really DOES forgive Tenma - it makes the whole storyline a huge success.

BTW I understand "WMOD" is a female (I thought she was a he too). Funny how some names ring male/female to the ear.

[Xenops]

I watched that part of episode 50 with the "don't die" quote, and Atom does say "shindinai" (sp?) which does translate to "don't die". But even if he does not directly say "I forgive you", isn't that action implied by the fact that Atom embraces his creator?

And I only know the Japanese word "shin" (death) because that is one the most used words in anime. Along with "mattegurei!" (wait!) and "chotto mate!" (wait a moment!)

Now time to do chemistry homework....Bleh.

[Dr. Jerk]

For the record, I wouldn't say O'Shay is "morbidly obese", I've seen... larger people, to say the least.

Also saying "Don't die!" can be the same as forgiveness, when you look at it deeply. The reason why they changed the dialogue a bit more was to remove all mention that Tenma wanted to commit suicide, something which Atom did not wanted to happen. Either way, he didn't wanted to see his creator end his life tragically, and had embraced him all the same.