Atom sacrifying himself is pointless

[Toshio]

We do know that Atom sacrified himself in the 1963 series and died for good.
Although, his past actions make his heroic sacrifice noble there are two issues about his death:

1) By sacrifying himself, his family and friends will never be able to enjoy true happiness, because he'll never be with them anymore. He'll be always missed and everyone may keep mourning his death for a long time.

2) By sacrifying himself, he'll remove the major obstacle for his past enemies from achieving their ambitions: HIMSELF
Do you really think the villains will get moved with his sacrifice and change his ways?
With Atom out of the way the previous villains and even new villains can do a big party.

I wonder why Tezuka don't got it in consideration.

Conclusion: His friends and family will not only be sad, but in danger of being killed by Atom's previous enemies who still wanted revenge and even new menaces which could appear.

Skunk: Thank you for saving everyone and also us, the villains, Atom!
But, you still suck and guess what? Without you on the way I'll give bombs to your parents and throw their remains away like scrap heap.
Let's party hard everyone!! That annoying robot brat is gone for good, hah, hah, hah!! It's show time!!

I can imagine Skunk and several villains dancing over Atom's family's remains and having a lot of fun now that he is gone and can't stop them.

[jeffbert]

I hate to be brusque, but this that you say is as dumb as Mr. Spock saying "THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUTWEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW" before entering the reactor & repairing it. He was as good as dead either way! O.K., Spock, stay out of the reactor, & everybody dies, including you. Likewise Atom, if he had returned to the earth, how long would it have been before the sun's heat became so high that even robots ceased functioning? I know that was not stated, but I do not recall anything about it not being eventual, either.

Robots, though not 'dying' as soon as plants and animals, would hardly be thinking they were lucky, as all life on earth came to an end. I doubt that they would be thinking "good thing we're robots!" What is the point of continuing, when your sole purpose for being had fled the earth?

What would Atom have done, otherwise? While it is a long movie, you should see ON THE BEACH. After the US & USSR have annihilated the Northern hemisphere, the Australians are waiting for the fallout to reach them. They, & a few crews aboard nuclear subs are all that remain of the human race; well, perhaps those in Africa & South America, but nobody expects to live much longer. In the pointlessness of his existence, one man jumps in a sports car, and drives off a cliff. Why wait for the fallout, when it is a certainty?

The film ended with the fallout dissipating, & hope being restored; though nobody believed it could end that way.

Only by bringing salvation to the others could Spock's or Atom's deaths have any purpose or meaning. Embracing the inevitable gave their deaths value.

[avatargirl]

hugs- I know reality is harsh but the death or sacrifice of anyone I know is horrible to me! my feminine imaginations traps me I hate the idea of ASTROBOY dying- but in my life people I care about die and I miss them so much! ALL I CAN DO IS PRAY THE BEST FOR EVERYONE HERE- I WANT ALL OF YOU TO BE HAPPY AND SAFE- TOSHIO- JEFFBERT- APRIL- MY BEST FRIEND CHRIS- JOE- AARON- BLUE CORE- LIL RAWR- DANNAVY- CYBOTRON- JAYRATH- EVERYONE HERE I WANT THE VERY BEST FOR ALL OF YOU- I LOVE YOU MY FRIENDS! PRAY YOU WANT TO BE MY FRIEND- NOVACAIN -ANIME GIRL 16- THANKS WITH LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP ALWAYS FROM MY HEART

[Toshio]

I disagree with you, Jeffbert.
That's not a way which a show should end end.
Even a hero have a life which should be protected.

If you're hardworking and wish to help people, you'll want to understand that YOU also deserve to experience happiness as well, and the people who wait for your return are still your biggest treasure.

Regardless of what you said, we can expect the villains taking advange of Atom's self sacrifice to do what they wanted since he was gone for good.

Do you expect that a villain like Skunk will be moved for Atom's heroic sacrifice by giving up crime and becoming a honest farmer? Give me a break...

It's true that we should do everything to save others, but we must find a way to protect our lifes as well.

Our lifes are also something which we should protect, nobody needs to be a messiah and die without a second thought in behalf of others.

Tezuka should thought of another way and no wonder why everyone sent messages of protest for how it ended.

True heroes deserve to survive and cheerish true happines with their dear ones and enjoy the result of their hardwork.

If Atom still had enemies which would not get moved by his sacrifice and neither change their ways, then we can expect them making a big party now.
It's true that somebody should save the world in that case, but they should thought a way which could not lead to a sacrifice.

What's the point of a character dying to save the world when the villains will take full advantage of it?

If all of his enemies were dead, then he would die without regret, but he would still forgoting the treasure which is those who wished his return as well.

Atom's sacrifice have no meaning if his enemies can return and take advantage. but at same time there'll be people suffering with his sacrifice.

Even Rurouni Kenshin pointed that:
The main protagonist suffered a botched assault from his enemy and believed that Shishio would not have strenght to keep fighting anymore, so he would had completed his mission anyway.

However, Kenshin realized that there was still somebody waiting for his return and it was a treasure which made him give value for his own life as well.

Even a short movie of Tetsuwan Atom showed a story which Atom struggled to save a friend from sacrifying himself from stopping a giant space colony from crashing on Earth, his chances of saving the Earth and as well himself were low. However they were NOT zero.

In the end, both managed to survive.

That's why we can think in a way which our hero will also try to save himself and those who still wait for his return.

In Pluto mangá, Atom concluded that he could melt while trying to stop Bora, but Pluto himself protected his body when they reached the enemy.
However, Pluto realized that Atom should return to his dear ones, since had people waiting for him.

And since Pluto don't had anyone waiting for him as his father died and he killed several other robots believing in a faker, he went to destroy Bora at the cost of his life and Atom got reunited with Dr. Ochanomizu who wished his return.

If you have somebody waiting for your return, then is worthy for you protecting your own life as well, that was also the message for that story.

There was even a tale of a woman who keept helping others, but one day she had a nightmare which she was being buried alive.

The psychologist who analized her dream, concluded that she was caring more about helping others than caring about her own happiness which resulted in that awful dream.

Imagine if a villain putted a hero into a situation which he should sacrifice himself to avoid people from being killed by a bomb?

For example, Atom is unable to difuse a bomb left by his enemy who used it to cover his escape.
So, Atom fly away from the city and is killed in the explosion.

Well, his action was noble, but he did what the enemy wanted: sacrifying himself, so he could not stop his enemy's ambition in a later date.

You ignored the possibility of enemies returning and taking vengeance in Atom's parents, since he sacrified himself to save the world.
Frankly, I can't expect a villain becoming a saint when Atom sacrified himself.

Saving the world and sacrifying himself is a temporary salvation, it doesn't mean that his friends and the Earth will be saved forever.

It doesn't mean all evil will cease to exists and they'll return and convinced that his menace will never return and there is nobody like Atom to get in the way.

That's why it's pointless for the show end like that.

A example of show which the main character sacrified himself for a greater good by having his mission completed was Metalder.

The protagonist defeated the main antagonist of the series, but he suffered a damage in his energy system that would make him explode and killing many people if not deactivated.

So, he requested his friend to give the killing blow, so the explosion could be averted.

With Neroz out of the way, there would no longer super beings causing havok and making the police overhelmed.

But, think about many super villains which survived due Atom's heroic sacrifice, do you expect them to change their ways and become good samaritans?

If there are villains who may escape the prison and take full advantage that Atom is gone, then his sacrifice is yet POINTLESS.

Don't forget that not everyone who are helped by a hero are good, there is always a black sheep between them.

For example, Atom save somebody, but that person is evil and he/she may trick him later and taking advantage of his kindness.

We could even think in a story which a villain conclude the fact that Atom care more about others than himself is his weakpoint, so he could be tricked and putted into a situation which he would have to sacrify himself to save others.

But, it was still what the villain wanted and that villain will feel pleasured.

To clarify, the best despiction of Atom sacrifying himself was shown in the 2003 series, because there was hopes of him being repaired.

Since Lamp avoided his capture, he thought that was his chance of eliminating all robots with kokoro since Atom was out of the way in that story.

They gave a better ending, because they thought about people mourning over Atom's death and wishing his revival. Not just that, but there would be a villain plotting something terrible with our hero out of the way.

Lamp got abandonned by his associates, but it doesn't mean he would give up so easily, so he tried to find out if somebody revived Atom and made his move.

But, as Lamp targeted Uran and Atom's friends it made Atom remember his abilities and little by little recover from his memory loss.

It's a lot better if the character have a chance of being revived, so he can return to his dear ones and cheerish happiness with them.
There is no treasure better than that.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

While I understand your sentiments Toshio, I'm fully supporting Jeffbert on this one.

If a hero makes a selfless sacrifice, yeah, maybe their loved ones might be in danger. Or heck, even the planet. But what you're forgetting is one very simple factor; the needs of the many do outweigh the needs of the few.

If Astro hadn't done anything, than everyone he ever loved and cared for would eventually die. Therefore, his self-sacrifice was necessary.

What people forget sometimes is that sometimes, self-sacrifice is a necessary evil. If an individual is willing to risk their life, their very existence solely for the sake of their loved ones or their world, then it's not pointless, it's noble. It's takes a lot of guts to put your life on the line like that, hence why many people find it moving. Astro is selfless, he is a symbol of hope, a symbol of what humanity can achieve because he himself believes in what he was doing, and this is no different.

I'd love to talk about how the ending to Madoka Magica is a good example of this, but because I go by the rule of "Whatever happens in Madoka, stays in Madoka", I'll instead explain how this works in another well known ending; Fullmetal Alchemist.

Despite being a story about two brother, FMA at its core is a story about sacrifice, and what it means in regards to both the laws of alchemy, and just on a basic human level. This is shown both through the actions of the Elrics brothers in the finale, but also through their superior Roy Mustang.

Roy knew full well that trying to assassinate the corrupt Fuherer would cost him his rank, and everything he'd ever worked for since the Ishvalan war. But he ultimately gave up his ultimate goal of becoming Fuherer, because in the end, his main goal was the improvement of his country. And when he saw just what an ungrateful person Bradly is, he knew he had no choice but to truly kill him, knowing what the repercussions would be. And in the end, he wasn't saddened or destroyed, he seemed happy, because he knew his sacrifice meant something.

Same thing applies to the Elrics. By the time the finale comes around, Al kept questioning why it was that he always cheated death while others died around him. Or worse, sacrificed something else in order to save his life. When he sees Ed die right in front of him, he didn't care about his body anymore. All he wanted was his brother back; the brother who had sacrificed everything for him, in order to get that body back. So Al revived him, knowing full well he would no longer exist in their world. But because Ed would rather have Al live, he instead gave up his own life in his world, so that Al could live.

Obviously, there were consequences; Roy lost his eye, Al lost his memory of his time in the suit, and Ed no longer lives in their world and can never be 100% certain that Al is alive and well. But it doesn't matter, because those sacrifices weren't pointless; they meant something to those characters. Each of them could finally understand that sacrifice meant giving something of true value up, and having to live with what you loss as a result to make that happen. But they couldn't have gone through that without all of the pain and suffering that was inflicted upon them and their past actions. That is what self-sacrifice is.

[Toshio]

Like I said, it's still better if the character have a chance of being revived and still much better if a character realize that he still have the chance of saving himself.

The 2003 series even showed a better ending and when everything ended, Atom's friends said that his dream was realized, but he said that one dream was realized and their dreams are still yet to come.
You can't realize your dreams if you die and if you die there is nothing which you can do as well.

It's good that he saved everyone, but at the same time, he left those who lost him mourning his death and his enemies will then enjoy and do whatever they wanted.

There should another way... If somebody led Atom to a self sacrifice to further their ambitions, then he would be a fool for falling for such a trick.

It's much more touching if in the last moment the hero realize that there is somebody wanting his return and he must do everything possible to survive and as well save everyone, because his chances are NOT zero.

Like when Kenshin realized the gravity of his wond after being stabbed by Shishio in Rurouni Kenshin, he remembered the words of his master who said to him that if he died then there would somebody very sad with his demise and this person was the one who he loved and wished his return.
He even remembered that he had promised that he would return.

I find more touching a story which Atom attempt to make a self sacrifice, but in the last momemnt, he remembered of promising to Uran and Dr. Ochanomizu that he would also find a way to save himself.
So, he manage to accomplish his mission without having himself killed in the result, because he found another way and the will of returning to his dear ones turned into strenght.

A important fact about the original series is that they do not made Atom remember that he still had people wishing his return when he sacrified himself.
If he had realized that would be important for him try to find a way to complete his mission without dying, then he would try to survive, no matter how the odds are.

In Tetsuwan Atom: Heart No Himitsu we got a revised ending of the 1963 series scenario which the Firebird tells Atom that his sacrifice was noble, but there was people wishing his return and because of it, the entity revives him and Ryoka (she was Nuka in the english version) so they could return and cheerish happines with everyone else.

Even the makers of the game figured that just a definitive self sacrifice would be not enough, so we got Atom revived and returning with his dear ones.

"Atom and Ryoka, you both willingly sacrified your lifes to save both humanity, robot kind, and the Earth. I was watching you... I am the Firebird... Can you listen them? Everyone is shouting your names as a one big voice. They need you, Atom.
I'll give both of you, the gift of life which you deserve."

In that epoch which Tetsuwan Atom 1963 was published, tragic endings were pretty normal, so they don't thought about making our hero find a way to complete his mission without dying.

Remember, his chances are not zero, if he knew that there was people wishing his return and realized that would important to find a way to survive all the odds then he would succeed and return to cherish the result of his hard work.

Atom can't give up of living while saving someone without even trying to keep himself alive, after all his chances are NOT always zero.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

Yes, but sometimes a hero doesn't mind giving up their life if it means saving others. I'm not saying that characters like that are suicidal, it just means that to them,other people's lives are more important than their own. And as such, Astro is no different in that regard.

Does he want to die? Of course not. But to him, all life is precious. Everyone he ever knew and loved would be dead if he didn't make a noble sacrifice.

Besides, I highly doubt that Astro's friends and family would not honor all he sacrificed for them to continue living. I'm not saying that they wouldn't miss him, they're entitled to. But if they can\t even accept that he died saving them, than it would make his friends and family seem kind of awful.

[Toshio]

It appears that Osamu Tezuka even did that, because he was having pressure from somebody.

We don't need to always make stories which our hero save everyone and get having himself killed definately in the process.

The return to his dear ones is his major treasure.
Atom was not taught that he should consider about saving himself as well.

That's why they even did a revision of that story.

There is nothing better than value his life and also do everything possible to survive from a mission which can may take his own life.

Imagine the case of the 2003 series if Atom died for good and a enemy like Lamp took advantage to attack and kill Atom's dear ones?

Ok, Atom, you saved them at a greater cost, but your enemy took advantage and ruined your hard work.
So, those who you died to protect ended being sent to their doom anyway.
With Lamp having the last laugh, did Atom's sacrifice was really worth?

He sacrified himself to save everyone, but at same time he gave the enemy a chance to flavour his victory. That sounds quite a bad scenario, right?

Sacrifice himself leaving enemies who can have the chance to destroy everything which he died to protect doesn't sound good.

Imagine the case which Atom sacrifice himself to save the world while a suicide scientist was hidding in the shadows and waiting the chance to detonate a bomb which would destroy the world?

Think about it, he saved the Earth, but few moments of his demise the Earth is still destroyed and everything which he did was in vain.

Atom's sacrifice would be valid?

Again, Atom sacrifice can be valid, but there is still a chance of a enemy ruining all of his hard work since he died.

That feels quite frustrating, right?

To get to the point: I believe that is pointless for Atom sacrifice himself without a second thought when there is a chance of his hard work ruined by a villain who got full advantage of his death.

So, if he sacrifice himself, there is still the possibility of everything which he fought so hard to protect to the point of costing his life being destroyed in one day by somebody who still hated him and wanted to cause mass destruction knowing he would be gone for good.

I could not ignore that possibility, no matter how Atom's action was noble.

Even KND mocked the idea of a team of heroes fighting so hard against a enemy to the point that their weapons and even vehicle got sacrified in the process.
But, it turned out that everything was a minustanding and the real vilain was another one who they don't even knew where he was hidding.

They got hopeless against that unseen enemy who was about to conclude his master plan.

Even YuYu Hakusho mocked the possibility of a pointless self-sacrifice:
Yusuke Urameshi sacrified his life to save a little boy from being ran over, but according to Botan (who act as a angel of death), the victim was meant to save himself through a miracle, because the ball would absorb the impact.
However, with Yusuke's action, the boy got wonded and he died in the proccess...

In Atom's case it would be ironic if the Firebird showed a future which he could throw the object which would normalize the sun without causing his death, so he could return to his dear ones.

And the Firebird would even point that if he had tried another way, then Atom would not die.

Remember: Atom's chances are NOT always zero, there is no need to ONLY think in a scenario which he fails to save himself and as well saving everyone from destruction.

[dannavy85]

Tezuka did leave a lot open but who's to say that with Astro gone the bad guys will have the smooth sailing they so thought? The future was never set in stone. We don't know if the robots would not have stepped up to the void given that Atom's sacrifice also saved Earth for their continued progress.

I've been thinking of writing a ScyFi script based on the last episode where Astro gets Atlas to promise he would carry on in Astro's place should anything happen.

[Toshio]

A important fact about Atom's sacrifice is that a very powerful enemy could appear suddenly and destroy ALL of Atom's hard work.
That enemy could even appear just after his sacrifice and that enemy would even get the chance to kill as his please since Atom was out of the way.

Like I said: Atom's chances are NOT always zero and he was not taught that he should have tried to save himself as well and find another way.

We don't need to always go into a ending where our dear one dies to save everyone while there is still a chance of a much bigger threat appear taking advantage of his death to ruin everything.