Astro is NOT related to Pinocchio

[cybotron]

Originally posted by jeffbert@May 15 2004, 01:08 PM
I am ready for you, Cybotron!!!

Let us start fresh.



A mere 'yes' or 'no' answer will suffice. This time I hope to deal with only one issue at a time. This should ensure that the debate is easy to follow. In the past, we both addressed numerous statements with each posting, & I feel that the thing quickly went from logical or rhetorical debate to emotional responses. Let us avoid that this time.

Ahhhh. You have returned.
Yes well... If you promise not to diatribe against me for grammatical error.
I love your debate.
Cyber Ninja attention :wahah: h34r: h34r: h34r:

[jeffbert]

cybotron Posted: Mar 4 2004, 05:02 AM
Astro is not "Pinocchio".... We need to understand this. Astro is a resurrected being like Christ or Genesa. The creator of Astro's Good is also the creator of The Atlas evil, and is therefore an analog of God. Clearly. "Pinocchio" has never lived, and was a piece of wood draped wit a garment from the start. Astro has recurring memories of his former life....

Ok, let me address only 1 statement--Hmm, there are all so ripe for refute--which 1 shall I attack?

Seeing that neither Christ nor Buddha are mentioned in the topic name, I will refute this (I have edited your words to include only those statements with which I shall now take issue, and used bold font where appropriate):

cybotron Posted: Mar 4 2004, 05:02 AM
Astro is not "Pinocchio".... Clearly "Pinocchio" [b]has never lived, and was a piece of wood draped wit a garment from the start... Astro has recurring memories of his former life. [/b]

It is absolutely true that Pinocchio has indeed never lived in the literal sense of the word. However, even you must admit that neither has Atom. Both are fictional characters, they like Captain Nemo, the Terminator, the Man with no name, Yojimbo, and all other fictional characters are niether dead nor alive. They only live in readers' or viewers' imaginations. It is not like The Last Action Hero in which the kid somehow entered the movie itself and interacted with the characters in their environment and was subject to the rules of that film (regardless of how cool that might be :lol . However within the framework of their respective stories, they live and exhibit characteristics of living beings. Pinocchio was a wooden puppet that while still a puppet, exhibited certain characteristics of a little boy. as such, he realized that he was a mere puppet, and wished to be a real boy.

Before we get lost in any metaphysical discussion, let me say this: I took some literature courses, and silly as it seems, we sat there and discussed characters' motivations as though they were historical rather than fictional. We considered viewpoints from psychological to feminist, all of which overlooked the obvious fact that the characters did whatever the authors and screenwriters made them do! Sometimes I felt rather silly trying to psychoanalize Frankenstein or his creation.

To summarize my points:

• Both Atom and Pinocchio are fictional characters.
• Therefore, neither Atom nor Pinocchio have ever lived in the physical sense of the word 'live'; that is as you & I 'live'.
• Hence, your argument is moot; it has no practical significance.

Please do not respond without offering evidence in support of your views, and please keep to this point.

[cybotron]

To summarize my points:

• Both Atom and Pinocchio are fictional characters.
• Therefore, neither Atom nor Pinocchio have ever lived in the physical sense of the word 'live'; that is as you & I 'live'.
• Hence, your argument is moot; it has no practical significance.

Please do not respond without offering evidence in support of your views, and please keep to this point.

Pinnochio is a work of fiction. Astro on the other hand is an invocation and similitude of an Angelic spirit. Astro is an Iconographic representation of a biblical personage. an Apocalyptic visitation. The Buddha statue is a representation of a boy that was born of a woman that satisfied the expectation of the Vedic Gestalt. The Christ figurines are the repesentation of a boy that satisfied the spiritual expectation of the Greco-Roman Zeusian Gestalt. The expectation of the Apocalyptians likewise has produced song, poetry, and art beyond vain prayers and priestcraft...

"....And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:...."Revelation 10:1
How can it be possible to convince anyone that Anything written in a scripture is real? what is the true form of Anubis? What is the true form of Chimera? What is the true form of 666? What is the true form of Ram? I would have to prove the existance and substance of angels.
In the Shinto, Edison is worshipped as an Angel or "small god."
In the millennial Astroboy, the basis of Tezuka Do is plain. Thus Astro is a "thus come one." And not fictional in the sense you use. But an expectation of Apocalyptic Gestalt. And you are watching the communications of a cultus whose hope and expectation is the intervention of spirits of the divine. The beyond. Recurring life. The bodhisatva. The angelic.

[jeffbert]

I am so sorry that I bothered to pick up this argument. Your response is all but meaningless to me. If you would please elaborate on any one of your statements so that a layman such as I can understand it, I will resume my argument.

As to proving scriptures, you are essentially correct. Joseph Campbell noted that we have rationalized these things into non existence. I take the --cannot think of the word right now, but neither theist nor atheist position. I just do not know with any degree of certainty whether any god exists (as we define 'god' .

But, that is beside the point of this thread. I should just drop the whole thing, since you insist upon making unverifiable statements. I came here for an argument, paid $5 for 5 minutes, and this is what I get!?

[cybotron]

Originally posted by jeffbert@May 16 2004, 09:47 AM
I am so sorry that I bothered to pick up this argument. Your response is all but meaningless to me. If you would please elaborate on any one of your statements so that a layman such as I can understand it, I will resume my argument.

As to proving scriptures, you are essentially correct. Joseph Campbell noted that we have rationalized these things into non existence. I take the --cannot think of the word right now, but neither theist nor atheist position. I just do not know with any degree of certainty whether any god exists (as we define 'god' .

But, that is beside the point of this thread. I should just drop the whole thing, since you insist upon making unverifiable statements. I came here for an argument, paid $5 for 5 minutes, and this is what I get!?

That was one of my fav episodes...
I loved "Confuse-A-Cat" too.
Try to escape my hand... Said the Buddha to the monkey King.

Cyber Ninja at ease h34r: h34r: h34r:

[jeffbert]

After reading a bit from that Sutra, I was reminded of a wiseman's wisdom:



Cybotron, you are a true believer, I mean that in a psychological sense. That is, you cannot scrutinize the object of your belief: Astroboy. You might consider starting your own cult. If you think nobody would worship a little robot-boy, you might be surprised at how desperate people are for a object of faith.

BTW, here is a page listing the scripts or transcripts of the Monty Python skatches.

[cybotron]

Astroboy is an instruction. For the eternal child. We are Astroboy ourselves. We only have to look into the mirror to "scrutinize" Astroboy.The anime is a set of instructions, the program. If one has no "Operating System" the program and it's instruction has no meaning. What is the difference between collective "imagination" and "Gestalt"???
:wacko: Cyber Ninja at rest h34r: h34r: h34r:
Thanks for the Confuse-A-Cat...Wow!!! :wahah: Real Ice Cream!

[Strange Wings]

Originally posted by jeffbert@May 16 2004, 04:50 AM

BTW, here is a page listing the scripts or transcripts of the Monty Python skatches.

COOL! I love the pythons.
Is there any transcription around for the 'Piston Engine' sketch?
Or from this one: Goooorrrn! Sort of a good woody type of word, rather than those tinny things.

[DrFrag]

If I may offer my services as an interpreter...

I think what Cybotron is saying is that Astroboy is a manga/anime manifestation of a real angelic/spiritual entity.

Here are my thoughts on this.
IMO, as a Christian, if the portrayed goodness of Astroboy serves as a signpost to the greater goodness of Christ, then that's cool. I mean, if Astro is awesome, then God must be awesomer. B)
But if the protrayed goodness of Astroboy (as seen as an angelic manifestation) becomes an idol unto itself, then that's not so good. Angel worship has always been a temptation (Col 2:18, Rev 19:9-10, Rev 22:8-9) and the Bible is clear that the role of angels are as servants of God.
Do I think Revelation 10:1 refers to Astroboy? I have no idea. There just isn't enough information and Revelation can be interpreted on so many different levels. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, so I'm not really interested in delving deeper into it.
Note that these are my opinions as a Christian, and should not be included in anyone's $5 argument account. I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints on this, as long as they make sense to the average person. (ie, by leaving out words like "Gestalt")

BTW, I think "agnostic" was the word you were looking for, Jeffbert.

[jeffbert]

I am now an agnostic (thanks Doc), but do indeed have opinions about Bible interpretations. I liken any such interpretations to similar ones about the US Constitution. Both documents have seen much change in their interpretations over the years; however, please note that that is the sole similarity that I am asserting.

clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire

• clothed with a cloud:
• and a rainbow was upon his head,
• and his face was as it were the sun,
• and his feet as pillars of fire

In that Atom has high-intensity floodlights in his Big Brown eyes, and that he has rockets or jets in his feet, he is physically like the description in Rev 10. However, the similarity ends there. The description is too vague to assert any likeness beyond these two of four descriptions.

To people living at the time it was written, this description would have them visualizing something very different from what we might visualize.

It would make your points a bit more clear, Cybotron, if you noted how they are alike, or delved a bit deeper into an explaination.