The Death of Sigfried "The Gotterdamerung"

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by cybotron+Jul 13 2004, 12:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cybotron @ Jul 13 2004, 12:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--jeffbert@Jul 13 2004, 12:32 PM
I do not know for certain that Lee was even in the 3rd film, but, it seems rather odd to have him slip into obscurity like that. It has been well over 25 years since I read the books, but, it seems odd that he did not even show his face in the 3rd.  CL is one of my favorite horror-genre actors. I esp enjoy his collaborations with Peter Cushing on Hammer films. Too bad Cushing died.

Yeah... When I was a kid, I'd go to the movies and they would have triple features. Chris Lee and Peter Cushing theatre after theatre. The kids would'nt go see anything else. Except Vincent of course. I mean these guys were our babysitters. Everyone is gone now, CL is the only one left and you can forget getting a decent vampire movie these days. Hammer has not been equaled. A vampire that's not afraid of a cross is worthless in my book. They have no style anymore.

A Chris Lee page

Dracula is destroyed again!!! Saturday afternoon...sigh.
Yum! [/b][/quote]
I think Hellsing is an exception. Of course, it is not the same thing. The baddest of the bad is Aucard (spelling?), & he serves Sir Integra. I thought I would never get used to reading from right to left, but it was rather easy!

Anime has a ton a vampires, who are not bound by budgets for sfx. Some are rather comical. One found in Phantom Quest Corp certainly is. Nightwalker is also cool.

However, horror movies these days rely too much upon gross-out shock effects. Vampires take a back seat to psychos with chainsaws. But which one is truly scary? The vampire pic, which does not stir up thoughts of "that could really happen", or the psycho pic, which does. The only thing that really frightens me is my deteriorating physical condition, movies make me laugh even when doing their best to scare me. :wahah:

[jeffbert]

One of my favorite roles played by Lee was that of Death, who had come to apologize to little girl (L Newman) for taking Fluffy on the original SNL.

[fafner]

My "Cybotron thinking scheme" doesn't tell me anything about the government that Gandalf serves... And the real Cybotron tells nothing too... Could it be that the copy achieve such a perfection that it gives the same results as the model even in the silences ? :wahah:
Come one Cybotron, what government Gandalf serves? I want to know !
You can take your time though, I will not be back before a few days B)

[cybotron]

Originally posted by fafner@Jul 16 2004, 01:54 AM
My "Cybotron thinking scheme" doesn't tell me anything about the government that Gandalf serves... And the real Cybotron tells nothing too... Could it be that the copy achieve such a perfection that it gives the same results as the model even in the silences ? :wahah:
Come one Cybotron, what government Gandalf serves? I want to know !
You can take your time though, I will not be back before a few days B)

The Goverment where he put the King on the throne..... He installed the gondor goverment by overthrowing the Regent power.

[fafner]

Originally posted by cybotron@Jul 15 2004, 09:48 PM
The Goverment where he put the King on the throne..... He installed the gondor goverment by overthrowing the Regent power.

Finally I made a last pass before departure...

Gandalf overthrown the Regent power? Didn't the Regent become mad because of sorrow and too much pressure? Or did Gandalf drive him mad by black magic? <_<
I really don't see the point

And beside this, he helped king of Rohan by breaking the curse casted upon him. Shouldn't he also be an agent of Rohan government too?

[cybotron]

Originally posted by fafner+Jul 16 2004, 08:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fafner @ Jul 16 2004, 08:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--cybotron@Jul 15 2004, 09:48 PM
The Goverment where he put the King on the throne..... He installed the gondor goverment  by overthrowing the Regent power.

Finally I made a last pass before departure...

Gandalf overthrown the Regent power? Didn't the Regent become mad because of sorrow and too much pressure? Or did Gandalf drive him mad by black magic? <_<
I really don't see the point

And beside this, he helped king of Rohan by breaking the curse casted upon him. Shouldn't he also be an agent of Rohan government too? [/b][/quote]
Yes of course...
Goverment is by written law, rules and tradition. The magna carta. The bill of rights, the declaration of independence. Etc. Gandalf was the agent of the same towers and orders where Saruman ruled. He ran to the order to report the rise of Sauron like a dutiful agent. But his master Saruman turned traitor and sided with Sauron. Surely you saw this? It is possible to be an agent of many goverments without betraying the one goverment you are sworn by oath to. For instance... America and Britain are allies against the Nazi. A common foe. The kingdoms of middle earth are united against Sauron, a common foe.

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by cybotron+Jul 15 2004, 10:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cybotron @ Jul 15 2004, 10:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -fafner@Jul 16 2004, 08:24 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--cybotron@Jul 15 2004, 09:48 PM
[b]The Goverment where he put the King on the throne..... He installed the gondor goverment  by overthrowing the Regent power.

Finally I made a last pass before departure...

Gandalf overthrown the Regent power? Didn't the Regent become mad because of sorrow and too much pressure? Or did Gandalf drive him mad by black magic? <_<
I really don't see the point

And beside this, he helped king of Rohan by breaking the curse casted upon him. Shouldn't he also be an agent of Rohan government too? [/b]

Yes of course...
Goverment is by written law, rules and tradition. The magna carta. The bill of rights, the declaration of independence. Etc. Gandalf was the agent of the same towers and orders where Saruman ruled. He ran to the order to report the rise of Sauron like a dutiful agent. But his master Saruman turned traitor and sided with Sauron. Surely you saw this? It is possible to be an agent of many goverments without betraying the one goverment you are sworn by oath to. For instance... America and Britain are allies against the Nazi. A common foe. The kingdoms of middle earth are united against Sauron, a common foe.[/b][/quote]
Yeah, but what about CL? He was evil in both of his recent roles (here & Star Wars). And can one man be both Magneto & Gandalf, both good & evil? I cannot remember his name, but he played himself on the Simpsons. Nevermind about arguing wether Magneto is evil, I am just trying to lighten the mood, since the is no sense arguing with you, Cybotron.

[cybotron]

Originally posted by jeffbert+Jul 16 2004, 01:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jeffbert @ Jul 16 2004, 01:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -cybotron@Jul 15 2004, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by -fafner@Jul 16 2004, 08:24 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin--cybotron@Jul 15 2004, 09:48 PM
[b]The Goverment where he put the King on the throne..... He installed the gondor goverment  by overthrowing the Regent power.

Finally I made a last pass before departure...

Gandalf overthrown the Regent power? Didn't the Regent become mad because of sorrow and too much pressure? Or did Gandalf drive him mad by black magic? <_<
I really don't see the point

And beside this, he helped king of Rohan by breaking the curse casted upon him. Shouldn't he also be an agent of Rohan government too? [/b]

Yes of course...
Goverment is by written law, rules and tradition. The magna carta. The bill of rights, the declaration of independence. Etc. Gandalf was the agent of the same towers and orders where Saruman ruled. He ran to the order to report the rise of Sauron like a dutiful agent. But his master Saruman turned traitor and sided with Sauron. Surely you saw this? It is possible to be an agent of many goverments without betraying the one goverment you are sworn by oath to. For instance... America and Britain are allies against the Nazi. A common foe. The kingdoms of middle earth are united against Sauron, a common foe.[/b]

Yeah, but what about CL? He was evil in both of his recent roles (here & Star Wars). And can one man be both Magneto & Gandalf, both good & evil? I cannot remember his name, but he played himself on the Simpsons. Nevermind about arguing wether Magneto is evil, I am just trying to lighten the mood, since the is no sense arguing with you, Cybotron. [/b][/quote]
How in the name of all that's good can you take exception with what I just said? How? What is it now!!! How can you argue with that?

[fafner]

Originally posted by cybotron@Jul 16 2004, 04:32 AM
It is possible to be an agent of many goverments without betraying the one goverment you are sworn by oath to.

I would be really curious to see a demonstration of that... :wacko:
Multi-oath is possible of course, but what happens if the different organisations/institutions/governments to which you have sworn an oath turn ones against the others? :huh: Of course you could arrange not to be in such a situation by choosing carefully you allegeance, for example to serve Middle-Earth governments and the wise Saruman... But Saruman chooses another path! Oath to Saruman has to be broken! What I see there is that Gandalf betrayed Saruman, wasn't Gandalf submitted to Saruman's law?
Now all is upside down :wacko: Who betrayed who in the story? Please make things clearer Cybotron I'm lost

[jeffbert]

Originally posted by fafner+Jul 19 2004, 04:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fafner @ Jul 19 2004, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--cybotron@Jul 16 2004, 04:32 AM
It is possible to be an agent of many goverments without betraying the one goverment you are sworn by oath to.

I would be really curious to see a demonstration of that... :wacko:
Multi-oath is possible of course, but what happens if the different organisations/institutions/governments to which you have sworn an oath turn ones against the others? :huh: Of course you could arrange not to be in such a situation by choosing carefully you allegeance, for example to serve Middle-Earth governments and the wise Saruman... But Saruman chooses another path! Oath to Saruman has to be broken! What I see there is that Gandalf betrayed Saruman, wasn't Gandalf submitted to Saruman's law?
Now all is upside down :wacko: Who betrayed who in the story? Please make things clearer Cybotron I'm lost [/b][/quote]
If those governments are agreed on the issues pertanant to you, perhaps. However, I would expect a guy who so often quotes religious texts to know about the "No man can serve two masters" line from the NT.

Fafner also raises an interesting point. If CL was G's master, and CL decided to serve Mordor (do not remember the guy's name), where in G's contract is the clause that allows him to escape service if CL turns from good? On the other hand, it does make some sense that after years under a good CL, G would have reasonable expectation that CL would continue to work for the common good. Since he signed on with CL when CL was good, he thereby allied himself with good. Somewhat like B and F during WWII. before G invaded and divided F, B & F were allies. Once G had conquered much of F & F's Vichy Govt. allied itself with G, B sunk F's ships, lest G take possession of them. However, the difference is that B was not subordinate to F.