The Polar Express.

[cybotron]

Beautiful flash site......

I got a ticket to ride....
I'm still in Xmas Shock!

[O2Destroyer]

Have you seen The Incredibles yet?

Stills from Polar Express look good, but they don't seem to understand how to do human locomotion particularly well...

[cybotron]

Originally posted by O2Destroyer@Nov 19 2004, 08:20 PM
Have you seen The Incredibles yet?

Stills from Polar Express look good, but they don't seem to understand how to do human locomotion particularly well...

I saw The Incredibles .... Polar Express blows it away as far as fine detail is concerned. :wahah: Warners animation is faboo.

[O2Destroyer]

Finally got around to seeing this, and now I have a reply to the question posed by your thread 'greatest cgi animated movie yet', and to this, I can firmly say no.

Polar Express makes almost exclusive use of "performance capture technology", that is, super futuristic rotoscoping. This is a sense I got watching the film then finally had to look it up. I watched with another fan of animation and we were both asking 'is this rotoscoped'...but of course, it can't be, it is with computers. Well, Ralph Bakashi would be proud I guess, since the technology which made polar express is not a stone's throw from his favorite technique of filming live action and then painting over it.

Only now, its the computers that do the painting, and in 3D. That isn't animation.

While I didn't go to college for animation, I know enough people who did. I certainly know enough to understand the principles of stretch and squash and so forth. Polar Express may be a beautiful film, but it isn't a beautiful animated film. While you (Cybotron) said this 'blows the incredibles away in fine detail', I now wish I'd never made the comparison because they simply aren't the same kind of film. The Incredibles is an animated film using CGI, the Polar Express is a live action film modified by computer. Oh there's some animation in here for sure--but not where it counts; not in human expression or body language.

Ultimately, I felt like this is the same old lesson we learned back in the 70's. When they remade King Kong with a giant monkey suit, the producers were shocked to learn that the original animated lump of clay was far more expressive. No doubt because the original Kong -was- animated. We've got well over 50 years of experience in knowing how to make pen and ink come alive with magnificient expressiveness (Bambi still thrashes some of the best new animation in this regard); Polar Express (like the Bakashi films before it) quite strangely tries to reinvent the wheel, and with little success. Sorry, I'll stick to my round ones, they've served me just fine up until now...

[cybotron]

well yes, it is "performance capture technology" right down to the smiles on their faces. Hanks had these dots on his face so that all his expressions could be captured.
Here is special background data on why this film is so great a jump in animation.
This is important because it opens the way to "Cyber Actors" in more photo realistic films. "Final Fantasy the spirits within" for example. It's not really Bakshi rotoscoping.
Zemeckis Defends Polar Express.... in his own words.

And here's Tom Hanks in a video interview on the movie and technology....


Your understanding of "performance capture" and it's political ramifacations in Hollywood is greatly lacking. This is in no way rotoscoping. Tom Hanks was captured for both these scenes. Both captures are Hanks..... :wahah:
Child and Man. Therefore obviously you need to go back and get more info on the subject.

[cybotron]

Originally posted by O2Destroyer@Dec 6 2004, 12:00 AM
Finally got around to seeing this, and now I have a reply to the question posed by your thread 'greatest cgi animated movie yet', and to this, I can firmly say no.

Polar Express makes almost exclusive use of "performance capture technology", that is, super futuristic rotoscoping.  This is a sense I got watching the film then finally had to look it up.  I watched with another fan of animation and we were both asking 'is this rotoscoped'...but of course, it can't be, it is with computers.  Well, Ralph Bakashi would be proud I guess, since the technology which made polar express is not a stone's throw from his favorite technique of filming live action and then painting over it.

Only now, its the computers that do the painting, and in 3D.  That isn't animation.

While I didn't go to college for animation, I know enough people who did.  I certainly know enough to understand the principles of stretch and squash and so forth.  Polar Express may be a beautiful film, but it isn't a beautiful animated film.  While you (Cybotron) said this 'blows the incredibles away in fine detail', I now wish I'd never made the comparison because they simply aren't the same kind of film.  The Incredibles is an animated film using CGI, the Polar Express is a live action film modified by computer.  Oh there's some animation in here for sure--but not where it counts; not in human expression or body language. 

Ultimately, I felt like this is the same old lesson we learned back in the 70's.  When they remade King Kong with a giant monkey suit, the producers were shocked to learn that the original animated lump of clay was far more expressive.  No doubt because the original Kong -was- animated.  We've got well over 50 years of experience in knowing how to make pen and ink come alive with magnificient expressiveness (Bambi still thrashes some of the best new animation in this regard); Polar Express (like the Bakashi films before it) quite strangely tries to reinvent the wheel, and with little success.  Sorry, I'll stick to my round ones, they've served me just fine up until now...

If a person being decieved.... Were inclined to mentally stumble into the Neuropathic abyss of the "Anti Polar Express" by the mad act of publishing "Anti Polar Express" cyber propaganda @ Xmas. And the Angel seeing such an one falling..... Must needs take pause and consider.... Do I really want to catch such a dolt in my hand? It is a vexation. The blind idiot devil and demiurge possessed delusion drenched clown of clowns. :wahah: :wacko:
But I bask in the glow of my Xmas decorations and must have good cheer. Though I have had the full measure of grog, I yet watched Julie Andrews in "cinderella" (mot seen since 1957) and I refuse to actually desire the utter destruction of such an "Anti Polar Express" dolt. :wahah:

[O2Destroyer]

Originally posted by cybotron@Dec 6 2004, 10:38 AM

If a person being decieved.... Were inclined to mentally stumble into the Neuropathic abyss of the "Anti Polar Express" by the mad act of publishing "Anti Polar Express" cyber propaganda @ Xmas. And the Angel seeing such an one falling..... Must needs take pause and consider.... Do I really want to catch such a dolt in my hand? It is a vexation. The blind idiot devil and demiurge possessed delusion drenched clown of clowns. :wahah: :wacko:

Clearly you are right...

[cybotron]

Originally posted by O2Destroyer+Dec 6 2004, 10:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (O2Destroyer @ Dec 6 2004, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--cybotron@Dec 6 2004, 10:38 AM

If a person being decieved.... Were inclined to mentally stumble into the Neuropathic  abyss of the "Anti Polar Express" by the mad act of publishing "Anti Polar Express" cyber propaganda @ Xmas. And the Angel seeing such an one falling..... Must needs take pause and consider.... Do I really want to catch such a dolt in my hand? It is a vexation. The blind idiot devil and demiurge possessed delusion drenched clown of clowns.   :wahah:  :wacko:

Clearly you are right...[/b][/quote]
I will now instruct you in Performance capture.
It is an interface that does not produce an image, but it controls the movement of an image. Like the controller of a video game. Like the glove? Only this is a more refined system. Spiderman, Lord of the Rings, Fantastic four,etc. All use such a device. But it's still animation. The objects being controlled must still be drawn by a CGI artist same as the incredibles only a more realistic style.
Here is the Polar Express quicktime trailer so you can see the fantastic artwork. without prejudice.
Here is a Real player trailer.....


We are in the middle of the age of "Baa humbug"... The schools no longer allow Xmas pagents, songs, music. Many are offended by the mere mention. Children have been raised to despise all this. It's a shame you could not enjoy all this beauty and sweetness in your heart and mind. A power, a magick, a spirit is gone out into the land to alienate the hearts and minds and souls of children from that train. And from Xmas. Some are immune from that plague. That train is REAL. The Venom of the Beast poisons the heart. And such a one detests all things Sajdah (ie.Adoration of the Divine) and Xmas just does not sit right in his intellect... And that one can find no peace or Love.

Get back onboard kid.....

[cybotron]

Can you see?

[cybotron]

Originally posted by O2Destroyer+Dec 6 2004, 10:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (O2Destroyer @ Dec 6 2004, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--cybotron@Dec 6 2004, 10:38 AM

If a person being decieved.... Were inclined to mentally stumble into the Neuropathic  abyss of the "Anti Polar Express" by the mad act of publishing "Anti Polar Express" cyber propaganda @ Xmas. And the Angel seeing such an one falling..... Must needs take pause and consider.... Do I really want to catch such a dolt in my hand? It is a vexation. The blind idiot devil and demiurge possessed delusion drenched clown of clowns.   :wahah:  :wacko:

Clearly you are right... [/b][/quote]
The Clown tried to destroy the Train but The Real Astroboys were told he was coming.... :wahah: h34r: